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BumRushDaShow

(142,277 posts)
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 02:51 PM Oct 19

GOP-leaning polls trigger questions about accuracy

Source: The Hill

10/19/24 12:00 PM ET


The prevalence of Republican-leaning polls in recent weeks is raising questions about their effect on the overall polling average as the presidential race between Vice President Harris and former President Trump tightens even further.

Surveys from pollsters that lean toward one party are a regular occurrence in presidential contests along with independent polling.

In recent weeks, however, GOP-leaning polls have flooded the zone, fueling speculation that they could be skewing perceptions of the race. But experts note their average models have methodologies in place to prepare for this.

“When you look across all the averages, the net effect is less than a point, if you take out the Republican polls, or the partisan ones, so to speak,” said Scott Tranter, the director of data science for Decision Desk HQ. “So I don’t necessarily think it’s a huge thing there.”

Read more: https://thehill.com/homenews/campaign/4941955-gop-leaning-polls-trigger-questions-about-accuracy/



The exact same thing happened in 2022 and the media generated a "narrative" of "Red Tsunami" from it, and started causing Democrats to shift spending that ended up unnecessarily putting resources in what were truly "safe seats" instead of some true swing seats that we could have taken (like Bobo's).

Just be aware that the GOP is now "flooding the zone" with their crap and the aggregators are eating it up with no impunity.

Bottom line -


36 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
GOP-leaning polls trigger questions about accuracy (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Oct 19 OP
At least it's getting acknowledged this cycle Fiendish Thingy Oct 19 #1
"Polling averages cannot be trusted." Exactly. notroot Oct 19 #13
Setting up the steal. Or at least attempted heist. yourout Oct 19 #2
In Repug world, its all corrupt all the time. Sneederbunk Oct 19 #3
When TSF began to show gab13by13 Oct 19 #4
That Red Wave is more like a sewage pipe leak. Dave Bowman Oct 19 #5
Yup Magoo48 Oct 19 #10
The ceiling for TSF is 47% gab13by13 Oct 19 #6
Well well well....finally being acknowledged by the media. PortTack Oct 19 #7
I think it's called "Covering Their Asses." Think. Again. Oct 20 #28
In 2016, ALL of the polls had k55f5r Oct 19 #8
Actually Hillary did win the popular vote. Trump has never won the national popular vote. gordianot Oct 19 #14
Nor will he. dchill Oct 19 #16
Red wave? What, did someone finally unload DonOld's diaper? 4lbs Oct 19 #9
Good analysis. This seems meant to keep Dem resources out of NC, FL and others... paleotn Oct 19 #11
The red wave is actually Heinz dripping down the wall. Magoo48 Oct 19 #12
Ha! Just had this visual!! PortTack Oct 19 #18
I'm remembering that 👍 underpants Oct 20 #27
YA THINK?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? Novara Oct 19 #15
Steady as she goes, gang. All the better if you're expecting a mail-in ballot. calimary Oct 19 #17
Mideas Touch interviewed these guys and they were able to samnsara Oct 19 #19
I have posted this analysis about 2022 before BumRushDaShow Oct 19 #20
This message was self-deleted by its author ailsagirl Oct 19 #21
Whether part of their intention or not TlalocW Oct 20 #22
Yes, and even the polls that are not GOP-created are slanted in the wrong direction-- Jack Valentino Oct 20 #23
When I see polls like this, I donate to Harris' campaign. shotten99 Oct 20 #24
Reckless distractions and ready-made explanations for a vote count which contradicts exit polling. jaxexpat Oct 20 #25
Every accusation is an admission underpants Oct 20 #26
Best solution - Vote - Your life depends on it kansasobama Oct 20 #29
And the supreme court... Trust_Reality Oct 20 #30
What a whiny piece of shit. BigDemVoter Oct 20 #31
Freaking Out Piglet999 Oct 20 #32
Welcome to DU! GP6971 Oct 20 #33
His incoherent behavior is far from recent.nt sheshe2 Oct 20 #34
Don't freak out. the polls are here to stir up clicks and drive ads. We got this, stay the course and help bring ... marble falls Oct 21 #35
Definitely Piglet999 Oct 21 #36

Fiendish Thingy

(18,510 posts)
1. At least it's getting acknowledged this cycle
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 02:55 PM
Oct 19

Although 538 is already doing damage control saying the Red Wave polls are shifting their averages by “only” less than a point towards Trump.

Simon Rosenberg says the Red Wave polls are themselves averaging between +2-4 points for Trump.

Polling averages cannot be trusted.

 

notroot

(267 posts)
13. "Polling averages cannot be trusted." Exactly.
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 05:19 PM
Oct 19

And also, pollsters can't be trusted, and this is not new, but like having a "crazy ex" it's something we all have to learn on our own, every generation, over and over and over and over forever. Apparently. George Gallup started operations in 1935.

Quoth Samuel Clemens, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies, and statistics."

(He was quoting someone else, but I mean... it's Mark Twain.)

The truth is voter turnout is always the biggest unknown variable. If we had 100% turnout, polls would be much more accurate. But we don't. So GOTV actually matters more than almost any other single factor, and that's the truth.

gab13by13

(25,232 posts)
4. When TSF began to show
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 03:04 PM
Oct 19

His physical and mental disabilities, I predicted this would happen.
What else do Magats have? I repeat;
Their polls do 2 things
1. Discourage Democrats
2. Give them an excuse to claim the election was stolen when they lose.

paleotn

(19,181 posts)
11. Good analysis. This seems meant to keep Dem resources out of NC, FL and others...
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 05:10 PM
Oct 19

and unnecessarily concentrated in PA, WI and MI. But Dems do their own work and may not be fooled. Since the fire is almost exclusively on our side this time, in my mind, telling people it's close may backfire and cause fence sitters to step up and vote for Harris. That same enthusiasm and motivation just doesn't exist right now on the right. And I doubt seriously this is going to cause any "all is lost!" BS on the Dem side. Other than our resident concern trolls anyway. I wonder about them.

calimary

(84,312 posts)
17. Steady as she goes, gang. All the better if you're expecting a mail-in ballot.
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 08:05 PM
Oct 19

I've always liked the on-paper kind. No electronic mess-arounds. Ours finally came today! YIPPEEEEEE!!! Two more votes going in for Kamala Harris and the Dems!

samnsara

(18,282 posts)
19. Mideas Touch interviewed these guys and they were able to
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 08:46 PM
Oct 19

explain it so even I could understand it. And it made it so clear what the other side is doing. I did feel better after listeing to them

BumRushDaShow

(142,277 posts)
20. I have posted this analysis about 2022 before
Sat Oct 19, 2024, 09:10 PM
Oct 19

but it gives an example as to what the goal was -

The ‘Red Wave’ Washout: How Skewed Polls Fed a False Election Narrative

By Jim Rutenberg, Ken Bensinger and Steve Eder
Dec. 31, 2022

Senator Patty Murray, a Democrat, had consistently won re-election by healthy margins in her three decades representing Washington State. This year seemed no different: By midsummer, polls showed her cruising to victory over a Republican newcomer, Tiffany Smiley, by as much as 20 percentage points.

So when a survey in late September by the Republican-leaning Trafalgar Group showed Ms. Murray clinging to a lead of just two points, it seemed like an aberration. But in October, two more Republican-leaning polls put Ms. Murray barely ahead, and a third said the race was a dead heat.

(snip)

Ms. Murray’s own polling showed her with a comfortable lead, and a nonprofit regional news site, using an established local pollster, had her up by 13. Unwilling to take chances, however, she went on the defensive, scuttling her practice of lavishing some of her war chest — she amassed $20 million — on more vulnerable Democratic candidates elsewhere. Instead, she reaped financial help from the party’s national Senate committee and supportive super PACs — resources that would, as a result, be unavailable to other Democrats.

A similar sequence of events played out in battlegrounds nationwide. Surveys showing strength for Republicans, often from the same partisan pollsters, set Democratic klaxons blaring in Pennsylvania, New Hampshire and Colorado. Coupled with the political factors already favoring Republicans — including inflation and President Biden’s unpopularity — the skewed polls helped feed what quickly became an inescapable political narrative: A Republican wave election was about to hit the country with hurricane force. Democrats in each of those states went on to win their Senate races. Ms. Murray clobbered Ms. Smiley by nearly 15 points.

(snip)

https://www.nytimes.com/2022/12/31/us/politics/polling-election-2022-red-wave.html


That kind of mess happened here in PA in 2022 with the Fetterman-Oz race where 538 had Oz narrowly winning -



The "actuals" had Fetterman win by 4%, outside of their MOE.



As a further note - I noticed this year that RW polling outfit "RCP" (Real Clear Politics) has rebranded their polling operation to be called "Real Clear Polling", so they can fool people into thinking they are someone other than who they are - a RW pollster/aggregator.

ETA - and NONE of these pollsters ever foretold that PA Democrats would actually FLIP 12 state House seats and actually take control of the PA state House for the first time in a dozen years. NONE.

Response to BumRushDaShow (Original post)

TlalocW

(15,624 posts)
22. Whether part of their intention or not
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 12:27 AM
Oct 20

When Trump loses, he'll point to these polls as partial "proof" that the election was stolen again.

Jack Valentino

(1,327 posts)
23. Yes, and even the polls that are not GOP-created are slanted in the wrong direction--
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 01:04 AM
Oct 20

because they are based upon 2020 election results, when Trump managed to increase his turnout with voters whom the honest pollsters "missed"---


Well, the pollsters have tried to 're-adjust' for those 'missing' 2020 Trump voters,
but the 'missing voters' this year will be ENTIRELY in the opposite direction---

women, young women, older women, AA women, and Republicans who can't stand Trump any longer!!!



I think those pollsters who are not deliberately attempting to show Trump as the winner,
as missing their guess in 2024 by as much as 5 or 6 percentage points---

which means that Harris-Walz will win this election!

jaxexpat

(7,785 posts)
25. Reckless distractions and ready-made explanations for a vote count which contradicts exit polling.
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 06:45 AM
Oct 20

These are the rationale for these mercurial poll results.

An aspect of the current festivities I've not heard mentioned much is, why in the hell did the GOP run a candidate who has NEVER gained a majority of the popular vote in two previous contests. Never since Ike routed A. Stevenson twice in the 1950's has our national exhibition approached this state of irrationality.

A point worth noting about that comparison; Democrats ran Adlai from a preponderance of faith in and hope for the good in people whereas the Republicans are running Trump because they hate and hold no regard for the American people or their government. Given those conclusions (flawed they may be, they are my own) there's no wonder evil spirits haunt this election season.

underpants

(186,634 posts)
26. Every accusation is an admission
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 06:51 AM
Oct 20

Rush used to decry polls as “liberal push polls” in other words DON’T BELIEVE YOUR EYES! This was while Rasmussen was emerging and Gallup lost its credibility. You still hear it in talk radio today, “Remember what Rush told us about polls”.

kansasobama

(1,493 posts)
29. Best solution - Vote - Your life depends on it
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 07:06 AM
Oct 20

It is not "vote as if your life depends on it." It is really "vote since life depends on it".

Trust_Reality

(1,885 posts)
30. And the supreme court...
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 04:03 PM
Oct 20

Just remembering...

In 2010 there was the Citizens United decision in which Alito and Thomas participated in the devious decision that money is speech. So, as protected free speech, money from pretty much any source in any amount can be spent to influence elections.

In recent months we have learned how much Thomas and Alito seem to have enjoyed the idea that money is free speech.

Piglet999

(5 posts)
32. Freaking Out
Sun Oct 20, 2024, 09:33 PM
Oct 20

This is my first post.

And I’m freaking out. I read that The Hill’s Decision Desk now has Trump ahead of Harris. I know I’m supposed to not read much into polls but I’m terrified of Trump winning and I can’t understand —-particularly with his recent incoherent behavior and ramblings not to much his danger—-how anyone could vote for him. Anyway, how is this happening?

marble falls

(62,047 posts)
35. Don't freak out. the polls are here to stir up clicks and drive ads. We got this, stay the course and help bring ...
Mon Oct 21, 2024, 08:30 AM
Oct 21

... out the vote!

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