Trump told him years ago when he was president to take over the West Bank. If Trump is elected, we will see all hope of a Palestinian state eliminated unless the international community stops Netanyahu because Trump won’t.

is actually installed back in the White House once again. That way, he can finish razing Gaza, give T or his son in law the land for a massive new hotel, and strip mine the rest of the land for whatever resources he can dig up. I've heard there is oil to be had there... this was a LONG time ago I read that, back when Bush Jr was all over the middle east. I often thought how different might things have been for Palestinians if that were true and they had been able to set up at least an initial economy based on that. Wouldn't help global warming, I know... but it might have helped the Palestinian people create something good for their society, instead of being at the losing end of Hammas and Israel. I still have to believe that normal, everyday people, are.. at their core.. good and simply want to live their lives and care for their family. No matter who they are. I'm probably way too naive in this regard, because I've almost lost it completely with magas, no matter how much of the koolaid they've drunk. But my next door neighbors are good, helpful people no matter who needs help... and yet there's a trump banner blowing in their yard. The cognitive dissonance is mind blowing.

Seems crystal clear to me.

Hamas cares as much for Gaza as Nuttyyoohoo does.

Based on your response, it therefore seems clear to me that you are equally curious of Hamas waiting to see if Israel gets the go ahead to wipe out Gaza and Israel waiting for the same thing happen.

That would explain why Hamas rejected the deal while awaiting the results of the U.S. presidential election next week before Israel did.

Am I as clear on that as you are suggesting I am?

And I see nothing in it that suggests wiping out Gaza.

Do you?

on a daily basis.

We know what orange sHitler told his clone he could do with Gaza.



Why do you think Netanyahu is waiting for the election to be over?

I would appreciate a quote, from the article in the OP or any other article you may have read outside the OP.

Anything about Israel waiting to see if they get the go ahead to wipe out Gaza.

Anything you know about Netanyahu's calls to Trump that nobody else appears to have reported? What exactly did Trump told his clone he could do to Gaza, and what was his clone's response? It appears that it is not just you who knows this, so you should have no trouble quoting any of them, right?

And what would be Hamas' excuse to delay negotiation past election? Wait for Israel to go ahead with wiping out Gaza?

So you want to know what I think about reasons why Netanyahu is waiting until after elections? Ok, and while I do not conflate Netanyahu with Israel as you do, here it is... I think he is waiting for Harris to win the election and only then go ahead and wipe out Gaza. Since Harris is ahead of Trump in polls, that would be the more likely outcome, and my loony proposition appears more plausible than yours.

Not by much, but still...

I already stated why I think Israel, as the article clearly says, is waiting for our election before moving forward on a new Egyptian cease-fire.
Why do you think Netanyahu prefers to meet and talk to Trump instead of the actual US President?
Should Israel wipe out Gaza who do you think will carry their water with the world and the UN? A Democrat who respects the law and doesn't consider Muslims to be lower than dirt. Or Trump, who has said that his good friend Netanyahu can do whatever he wants to Gaza?

And then of course there is Trumps dear SIL who thinks Israel should “Finish the Job” in Gaza so it can focus on building valuable “Waterfront Property” him and his FIL
Always the real estate agents!

Yeah asshole Netanyahu is waiting for Trump to win. And IMHO Netanyahu is the face of Israel, the people keep electing him over and over.

I just made a comparison between my intentionally asinine opinion and yours. And I showed how my opinion is more grounded in fact than yours. That was the whole point.

The article says nothing about what you think of Israel or why. It merely reports on the fact that Israel is waiting for our election before moving forward on a new Egyptian cease-fire. Hamas appears to be waiting for the same thing. If you are to speculate that Israel is waiting for the go ahead to wipe Gaza, it stands to argue that Hamas is waiting for the same thing: for Israel to get the go ahead to wipe out Gaza. Which is, you must admit, ridiculous on its face. Yet you don't see how ridiculous it is to claim that Israel is waiting to wipe out Gaza, especially considering that Harris, according to polls, is more likely to win the election.

If you feel that your opinion is more valid than mine, you are welcome to give legitimate reasons why you think so.Your opinion is as good as mine, except that mine, being completely unserious, appears to have more grounds to claim legitimacy than yours.

This is the beauty of opinions: you are always free to change them when they don't make much sense.The choice is yours, and there are indeed no rules that would prevent you from doing so.

You have a nice day, I see no reason to bother reading past your first sneer.

Where are you looking?

And if his intent (and his personal political necessity) is to continue to slowly bleed Palestinians he will continue unless some coalition physically stops him or he runs out of ammo.. The sad thing is where this enmity stands, Israelis will continue to live with the reality of regular terrorist attacks forever, declining economic and world political viability and live more and more in a bunker mentality. Very very sad.

And why a lot of people are so infuriated by the Biden administration.

Of course most of these people are under no illusions that Trump would be any better and recognize that he would be worse. But that’s just it, Biden has continued many of Trump’s policies in the Middle East (notably the so-called “Abraham Accords”) and what had that resulted in?

A lot of the pro-Palestine crowd are so morally opposed to ongoing US support for Israel’s war in Gaza (and now Lebanon) that they can’t bring themselves to vote for Harris even knowing full well that Trump will be worse. I don’t at all agree with that decision, but I’m trying to understand why they are so opposed to voting for Harris.

Two days ago.

Safe passage in exchange for hostages: Hamas rejects Israeli ceasefire offer

Hamas rejected an Israeli offer of safe passage out of the Gaza Strip in exchange for the group laying down its arms and releasing the hostages, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

According to the report, Mossad chief David Barnea, Israel’s top negotiator in the hostage-deal and ceasefire talks, made the offer.

Citing Arab mediators involved in the discussions, the WSJ reported that Hamas quickly turned the proposal down after it was initially pitched during a meeting between Barnea and Egyptian officials.

https://www.jpost.com/middle-east/article-826179

I know this goes against the blame Israel crowd but the truth is the truth.

They still cling to the hope that they will retain political control of Gaza when this is over.

Other than for Netanyahu to show his allegiance to Trump.

They didn't. It has nothing to do with Netanyahu or Trump. It is all on Hamas.

Obviously this announcement has to do with Trump. It references the election.

You may want to trust those unnamed sources. I don't. Israel made a concrete offer two days ago and Hamas rejected it.

So keep defending him. It reveals a lot about your political allegiances.

Which is the right of Israel to exist. That upsets some people.

that requires defending Netanyahu?

Netanyahu is one person in a war cabinet that includes members of other parties. All have to sign off on military decisions. I have no problem with the military decisions that Israel has made to date defending themselves against Hamas or Hezbollah.

Netanyahu is more than one member. He seems to make a lot of unilateral decisions that shock his cabinet. His stated lack of priority in securing the hostages return being one.

Killed in France, Germany and Japan by U.S. bombers or other military actions fighting Nazis and Japanese fascists. Should we have cut the war short when we knew what was going to happen? I don't think so.

Obviously you are because you are comparing the two.

But the same principles apply. You won't answer the simple question. I did. Why won't you?

The same principles apply? Please tell me which principles apply to WW2 and the Israel Hamas war that need to effect this amount of civilian deaths. Are the munitions the same? Are the logistics the same? Are the tactics the same? The strategies? Besides it being a conflict what is the same?

And you expect me to do it in a few sentences? I am not capable. I did ask a simple question and you ignored it.

If there is so much information then I'm sure it would be easy to name 5 or 6 principles.

Should we have cut the war short when we knew what was going to happen? I don't think so.

That was the question about WW II

Sad you think WW II can be summed up in a post. Maybe we should put it on TicTok.

Therefore you did not ask me a question did you?
No where did I ask you to sum up WW2, I asked for the same principles that you brought up. When you make a claim and get asked to back it up but then reply that you cant that says something about your claim.

Prob the main principle of the war was to stop a dangerous government that was anti-freedom from taking over large areas of a continent from other countries.
Is that what hamas is doing? No. Would they like to? Sure but they dont have anywhere near the capability to do so and wont for any foreseeable future.
Stopping the supplies and equipment going to the enemy to deny them from taking over said countries and expanding.
Does hamas have a logistics section that is anything like the axis powers and is equipping them to take over countries?
No.
The use of mass aerial bombing because munitions were not accurate.
Is this true now? No. Everything is more accurate now including artillery.
What else,
Oh,
The use of massive Naval forces including the emergence of the Aircraft carrier as a force to be reckoned with and large naval battles.
Whats the size of hamas navy?
We can include submarines also.
hamas subs? Not even close.
Massive destruction of military bases on both sides.
Not happening on either side.
Attacking shipping lines.
Not happening. The Houthis are but we are talking Israel-hamas conflict, even if you want to include it the tonnage sank is what? 0?
What else?
Extremely large tank battles,
Not happening.
Lots of countries fighting each other with immense battles.
Not happening.
I can keep going.
Lastly I will answer your question that you asked to someone else.
Should we have cut the war short when we knew what was going to happen?
We didn't know what was going to happen. We didn't know that it would lead to the largest amount of casualties ever seen
We didn't know that we would drop atomic bombs on Japan.
We didn't know if we would win or not.
We didn't know if the world would be controlled by independent countries as it is now or would become a hegemony controlled by the axis powers as that was what at stake.
That last sentence is the main principle of WW2. That is why WW2 is totally different than the Israel-hamas conflict. We didnt know if the world would be controlled by independent countries as it is now or would become a hegemony controlled by the axis powers.
So, they are in no way the same and to suggest so seems to lack knowledge of what happened in WW2.

Of facts and of history. We DID know hundreds of thousands of civilians would die to achieve our military objectives. We knew that from the beginning, yet we went ahead.

You don't have a clue. It wasn't hundreds of thousands, it was 45,000,000. That's 45 million. Maybe at least check before you say something when you are not sure. You are off big time.

Wow. I never knew that. The things you learn on this site...

It was
We DID know hundreds of thousands of civilians would die to achieve our military objectives.

I know it is hard to keep up.

18,000,000 Chinese civilians died.
2,000,000 Indian civilians died.
393,000 Japanese civilians died.
1,000,000 Filipinos civilians died.
That was the Pacific theater of which we were the dominant ally.
That makes a total of 21,393,000 civilians dead in the pacific war. How many died as a result of us? Do you really think it was only "hundreds of thousands"?

We estimate that the US killed 400,000 to a million. Can you show me where we estimated civilian deaths to be around that for our military actions in WW2 when we started it? Or is this just something that you think?

Oh, 4.5 million. Not hundreds of thousands.

Read the thread.

The entire world recognized WWII was abominable. Both sides committed horrible atrocities and what are now considered war crimes and crimes against humanity.

There is also the fact that in WWII there were actual opposing armies, maybe evenly matched, maybe not. But these were all nation-states with regular armies, navies etc. and the fight could at least been "fair" if abominable. It was a "war".

No comparison to Gaza at all. Due to the lack of ANY defensive capabilities, combined with the very questionable and secret rules of engagement enjoyed by Israel's military, Gaza is not a war. It's a massacre of defenceless civilians. It must end.

Israel is waiting to see if Trump, Nuttyyahoo's best friend gets elected. The orange SHitler has admitted they have been talking. And Trumps soul mate did visit him at mar a lardo. We all know who the Israeli leader aligns with. And it sure as fuck isn't any Democrat.

I have the same suspicions about Netanyahu delaying the negotiatiations.

My question was, since there is no such affiliation (as far as we know) between Trump and Hamas, what are Hamas' motives to reject the deal? Are they the same as Bibi's with regard wiping out Gaza?

My suggestionis, as you probably noticed, that "wiping out Gaza" is a patently gratuitous fallacy.

From the NPR link in the O/P:

It has the link to the article.

You said truth is truth. I agree. Truth matters. That's why I try to correct mistruths when I see them.

Israel or Hamas?

We won't know if they are lying until they actually say something!

Hamas rejected an Israeli offer of safe passage out of the Gaza Strip in exchange for the group laying down its arms and releasing the hostages, the Wall Street Journal reported on Friday.

According to the report, Mossad chief David Barnea, Israel’s top negotiator in the hostage-deal and ceasefire talks, made the offer.

1st two sentences from your link.

As I explained.

You claimed Hamas rejected the Egyptian proposal in the O/P. I corrected you.

Do not they need to also participate in a ceasefire? They seem in no hurry to accept any proposal.

Both appear to want endless war. Bibi is hoping he'll get the green light to exterminate Gaza if Trump is elected. That is what this OP is about, not Hamas.

Hamas rejected it. It is on Hamas. If Hamas had accepted the war would be over.

and Israel's decision to wait until Bibi's pal Trump may be elected.

Nothing turns up on my search of the news. Of course, it's possible my search didn't cover the right parameters. I tried Israel peace and Israel cease fire, and the Egyptian plan referenced in this OP comes up, but nothing else.

Yet only one side is ever criticized for being intransigent. Why is that?

Hamas is rightfully blamed all the time, and this board is majority pro-Israel. Why do you continually insist on deflecting from the point of this OP? You could start your own one on your chosen topic. Instead, you deflect from Israel's clear intention to see Trump elected, which is fucking insane considering he's aligned with White Supremacists who would and murder Jews and evangelicals that want to see Israel replaced by Christians.

As I see Hamas getting almost no blame, except from the "Pro-Israel" posters.

I have often criticized Netanyahu, that Israel should vote him out. Unfortunately, the actions of Hamas/Hezbollah/Iran are hindering both the peace process and helping him stay in office as an additional obstacle to peace.

rather than the US election. Clearly Bibi is waiting for Trump.

my point however is a one-sided ceasefire is no ceasefire.

I can't find anything in the press about Israel proposing or accepting a ceasefire. Do you have a link to an article about it?

It does go both ways, right?

It's the word of a negotiator present in the room where official negotiations are happening. Not a Likud government meeting.

But he's Arab, so...

Of course Netty would welcome the release of 4 hostages. The question is would he welcome the rest of the proposal? Withdrawal, end of war etc.

You may believe so. I don't.

take the two day ceasefire, extend it if he can get more hostages.

As for the rest, assuming Hamas complied, I would expect him to try and drag it out as long as possible in order to maintain his image with his supporters and stay in power.

The Netanyahu defenders should pay attention to whom they are aligned with. Democrats do not support Netanyahu, irrespective of their position on Israel.

It would be a hoot if Biden cuts off Israeli aid the day AFTER the election.

Hard-working D/CIA Mr. William J. Burns is meeting in Qatar this week with his Israeli counterpart, Mr. David Barnea of the Mossad, to earnestly re-start negotiations for a cease-fire and a release of the hostages. But this is all a kabuki theater thanks to Likudnik Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu.

D/Mossad David Barnea, who studied in the US years ago, had urged Israeli PM Benjamin Netanyahu to negotiate with Palestinian resistance leaders immediately in order to release the Israeli captives. At the time of the surprise attack on Israel (7 Oct 2023), at least 2,000 Palestinians were being held in security detention without hearing or trial. See report from Amnesty International below. This is why the Palestinians launched their surprise attack which embarrassed Likudnik Netanyahu: Seize Israeli captives for a prisoner swap who had no chance of freedom whatsoever from IDF security detention.

As of 28 Oct 2024, 43,020 Palestinians have been killed and 101,110 wounded. At the current rate of attacks on the Gaza Strip, the IDF will have killed 50,000 Palestinians before year's end. On top of this, Egyptian President Abdel Fattah el-Sisi said the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are on the brink of a famine. The UN reported the same. This is the Nakba that Agriculture Minister Avi Dichter wanted. See his exact comments in links below.



Sources:

https://www.amnesty.org/en/latest/news/2023/11/israel-opt-horrifying-cases-of-torture-and-degrading-treatment-of-palestinian-detainees-amid-spike-in-arbitrary-arrests/

https://www.nytimes.com/live/2024/10/28/world/israel-gaza-iran-lebanon

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/liveblog/2024/10/28/live-medics-among-seven-killed-in-israeli-attack-on-south-lebanon?update=3279859

https://www.abc.net.au/news/2024-10-28/un-chief-north-gaza-life-untenable-israel/104525252

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/israel-minister-admits-nakba-gaza-palestinians_n_65515794e4b0373d70b2aadc

tRump calls him. He has not bargained in good faith and never intended to get the hostages. What he has done is put egg on Biden's face. This smells, does he know tRump's "secret plan"?

All of the negotiation and hard work done by the Carter administration and Ronnie gets the credit?

But they're not going to get it because they're not going to win.