No deal should be made without the 101 hostages, including toddlers, being released.

There should be no deal without the hostages included.

To too many, the lives of the hostages are immaterial.

Just some pesky facts and oddball views of "some" who shockingly, nay absurdly! care for non-hostage lives too.

I agree about masks coming off, though. But probably not about which side.

That's why the Biden Ceasefire Plan of May included the release of the hostages under a phased-in approach.

But the veto of this UN ceasefire resolution abandons that earlier approach. It says the release of hostages must be a pre-condition to a ceasefire. Which, to me, makes a ceasefire even more distant and impossible. It also sends the message that the hostages are more important than stopping the killing and starvation of Palestinians.

Which to some may be true, but ultimately it is self-defeating and absurd. The hostages are also being starved and killed.

I also think that having a strategy that has as its cornerstone a reliance on Hamas to do the "right" thing is not the best strategy if you want to achieve either of your stated goals vis a vis the Palestinians or the hostages.

But again, that's just me, the oddball out.

Israeli killed in the Oct 2023.

That's quite a departure.

The U.S. stands alone, once again.

So what was all that effort and show all about for the last 10-months or so? In all of Blinken's negotiations, the Biden Ceasefire Plan etc. the release of hostages was to be part of a phase of the ceasefire, not a pre- condition to it.

The UN resolution in fact demands the immediate release of the hostages. That is the extent of its power. It cannot materialize their release.

So what the U.S. is saying is that it will not agree - ever- to ANY UN Resolution on a ceasefire, because the UN has no power to release hostages. Why didn't it just say that 10 months ago and allow the rest of the world, including the UN, to try to find a solution? Why present a false front to the world on its position, if this is what it always wanted - no ceasefire until after the hostages' release?

Now there is little hope for either the hostages' release or the end to the genocide. The US. position depends entirely on Hamas and I don't see that as good strategy to end the suffering on either side.

They are simply pawns in a disgusting game and used to fulfill their hate-filled agendas.

* seem to think it's a-okay. As long as the say the right things (insincerely, every once and awhile) then it helps to disguise the hate and antisemitism. Their crocodile tears may fool some who are willing to give a "free pass"... but they don't fool me.

Honestly just lol.

Even if you only see what you want to see.

There is only one disgusting game - what is being done to Palestinians. Fueled by hatred and a shocking degree of dehumanization and inhumanity.

And I really don't care what you think of me.

Last edited Wed Nov 20, 2024, 10:12 PM - Edit history (1)

not dealing with the hostage issue when in fact the article gives the reading as dealing with both a ceasefire and an unconditional and immediate release of all hostages. In other words "No we do not agree and we do so because you are trying to make us take what we've been asking for."

The reason the resolution has to be worded this way and be inclusive is because Netanyahu has said that even if all of the hostages are released he is not going to stop military actions. It couldn't be more plain and no matter how the US tries to "word weasel" the matter the resolution links both. I can assure you if two separate resolutions were passed the US would approve the one for release of the hostages and once the hostages were released the US would veto any measure to enforce the ceasefire resolution when Netanyahu failed to comply.

The US has made tiny gestures towards the idea that it holds the radical right wing government in Israel to compliance and accountability. Whether it is mealy mouthed words about settlement activity, disingenuous "demands" about aid and on and on. The US has stood by and used hollow words, equivalent of saying "naughty,naughty", about settlers openly attacking Palestinians in the West Bank while the IDF stands close by and does nothing. If the Palestinians fought back it would be guaranteed the IDF would spring into action. Their whole purpose for being nearby in the first place. Cover. The US has stood by and issued hollow words about the radicals in the settler movement attacking aid trucks bound for Gaza and once again with the IDF nearby doing nothing. The list goes on and on through the decades of hollow words from the US.

We can be sure that we will hear more hollow words from the US at some point about bombing and death tolls all while the evidence that there is absolute blood lust and a smile of satisfaction on the face of Netanyahu with every picture of a dead Palestinian child. While the US issues hollow words and gives disingenuous justifications for official failure after failure for decade after decade to enforce existing resolutions, block new resolutions for enforcement of previously approved resolutions etc. the slaughter continues all while claiming to be "even handed and wanting a 2 state solution". Bullshit. We stood by and for decades blocked action while successive governments in Israel changed the facts on the ground so dramatically in the West Bank that any withdrawal of Israeli settlers, huge amounts of infrastructure etc. make that an impossible situation.

Now comes the annexation in the West Bank which the government in Israel has already put in motion. I'm sure we will hear more words from the US. Make no mistake that it must be recognized that radical, blood thirsty people gained control of government in Gaza and in Israel. It also must be recognized that radical, blood thirsty people also took control of areas of Lebanon. But make no mistake that it also must be recognized that the US is also directly responsible for a part of why it all happened and as the bodies of the dead children pile up the US is directly responsible for part of that also and maybe the US trying to act as though it doesn't have responsibility for a part of it is nearly as sickening as looking at the pictures of dead children from 10/7 and of the dead bodies of children in Gaza, the West Bank and Lebanon since then.

The enablers of horror, whether the US or Iran, follow other enablers throughout history who claim more or less to have not been a part of the cause of the chaos and then the horror of conflict that followed. The enablers all share some similar traits. Greed, indifference to suffering, complicity and most of all cowardice. Cowardice most of all because that is the description for how enablers always fail to own up to what their part has been and continues to be.

the cease fire and the release of the hostages two unrelated issues to be negotiated separately from one another - something no other SC resolution has done before.

This allows for complying with the resolution by negotiating a cease fire without even bringing up the hostages - a complete defeat of the purpose behind any negotiation with Hamas the hostage taker. Hostages are Israels only interest in negotiating a cease fire in the first place. Without a cease fire being inexorably linked to the release of all hostages, Israel has no purpose for negotiating.

I think we can all agree that a purpose in negotiating something is instrumental for negotiating anything.