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BumRushDaShow

(146,692 posts)
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 07:15 PM Jan 19

National Guard confusion as troops fear turning into Trump's deportation 'Gestapo'

Source: Raw Story

January 19, 2025 8:31AM ET


Some National Guard troops are concerned they'll be called up to implement Donald Trump's mass deportation plans like a Hitler-era "Gestapo" that must enforce the incoming president's far-right policies against undocumented immigrants. Politico reported Sunday that "Some of the 435,000 troops worry they’ll get pulled into a legally murky mission rooting out people in communities where they have day jobs such as sheriffs, cops or firefighters."

But Border Czar Tom Homan claimed his top priority would be rooting out "criminals and gang members." Homan initially planned to begin the raids in Chicago, home to a high migrant population, but may be reassessing that location after it was leaked to the media.

In November, according to NBC News, "Trump confirmed a post by another Truth Social user, who wrote that the Trump administration would be 'prepared to declare a national emergency and will use military assets' for a deportation program. Trump shared the post, writing, 'TRUE!!!'”

Republican governors have vowed to deploy the state-run National Guard to help achieve Trump's ends, which he claimed would begin on "day one" of his presidency, which begins Monday. However, Politico reporters Jack Detsch, Liz Crampton and Lisa Kashinsky wrote that "blue states with control of their own Guard could simply refuse to go along."

Read more: https://www.rawstory.com/confusion-in-the-national-guard-as-troops-are-afraid-of-being-seen-as-a-gestapo/

22 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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National Guard confusion as troops fear turning into Trump's deportation 'Gestapo' (Original Post) BumRushDaShow Jan 19 OP
Trump's opening move is bringing Gestapo to America bucolic_frolic Jan 19 #1
oh yes, bdamomma Jan 19 #5
It's everyone's duty to jam the maga system. C_U_L8R Jan 19 #2
Yes indeed. Find creative ways to muck up the works wherever possible. Magoo48 Jan 20 #18
There have been national guards from several states here in Texas on border. marble falls Jan 19 #3
The border is a lot different than invading cities. Klarkashton Jan 19 #4
Abbott had Texas National Guards performing police duties in Austin. It's not so far a jump as one might think. marble falls Jan 19 #11
Can you just quit being a National Guard? Nictuku Jan 19 #6
Bush did just that tirebiter Jan 19 #10
There are a lot of lesbians in the NG. stollen Jan 19 #12
Gazpacho acc to MTG. keithbvadu2 Jan 19 #7
he can nationalize the blue state guards like ike and kennedy did with the southern states during desegregation prodigitalson Jan 19 #8
It's not that simple. When you nationalize the National Guard, control shifts from a Governor to the President. Upon 24601 Jan 20 #19
Remember the safety pin? Marthe48 Jan 19 #9
I thought that faded away and I was the only one left wearing it so I switched to an LT Barclay Jan 20 #13
The harm and hate didn't stop Marthe48 Jan 20 #17
Criminals and gang members? That does sound like an early Gestapo startup excuse. cstanleytech Jan 20 #14
The National Guard and Reserve pfitz59 Jan 20 #15
This Is A Very Important Story Baron2024 Jan 20 #16
You will be disappointed if you believe there will organized resistance from any of the eight uniformed services. 24601 Jan 20 #20
So Baron2024 Jan 20 #21
If you are not in the Uniformed Services, do whatever you want as long as you don't violate the federal or state laws 24601 Jan 20 #22

bucolic_frolic

(48,412 posts)
1. Trump's opening move is bringing Gestapo to America
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 07:19 PM
Jan 19

Tone deaf. This has boomerang potential. More so than 2016. Trump doesn't know it, but as far as public opinion is concerned he is on a much shorter leash than back then. He's now a known entity. His opposition is aware, if out of power. He will be a hated man.

Nictuku

(4,018 posts)
6. Can you just quit being a National Guard?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 07:52 PM
Jan 19

I wonder what those numbers have been lately.

All it will take from (what I read about that immigration bill - has the senate passed it too? god I hope not), this bill would allow neighbors or strangers to 'snitch' on POC - and all they have to say is I /think/ they are a gang member (or I think they are a shoplifter) and they can be DETAINED, without any kind of due process. They are assumed to have no rights and assumed to be undocumented aliens.

What is Trump going to call his prison work camps?

I cry for America. Please don't snitch on People of Color, it is so wrong, so un-American, so NAZI

tirebiter

(2,610 posts)
10. Bush did just that
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 09:50 PM
Jan 19

He started showing up at units not going to Vietnam. They even did a story on it in the Air Force Times.

stollen

(688 posts)
12. There are a lot of lesbians in the NG.
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 10:13 PM
Jan 19

I know one, and she can't wait to herd the "illegals" out of here. I doubt she knows they're Christian, like she is.

prodigitalson

(3,041 posts)
8. he can nationalize the blue state guards like ike and kennedy did with the southern states during desegregation
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 08:54 PM
Jan 19

only now the power will be used for evil

24601

(4,045 posts)
19. It's not that simple. When you nationalize the National Guard, control shifts from a Governor to the President. Upon
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 09:47 AM
Jan 20

nationalization, however, their authorities also shift - from Article 32 (which includes inherent law enforcement authority) to Title 10 (which includes law enforcement powers only in the very limited circumstances of insurrection or breakdown of civil authority).

For a National Guard unit to be effective with respect to enforcing immigration, retaining a Governor's Command and Control would be needed. Where the courts have prevented Governors from enforcing immigration law, it has been when the Federal Government asserts exclusive federal jurisdiction. That will not happen and I'd instead anticipate federal/state support and cooperation agreements pursuant to a declared national immigration emergency.

Marthe48

(19,927 posts)
9. Remember the safety pin?
Sun Jan 19, 2025, 08:55 PM
Jan 19

The symbol of being a safe person for POC and others in harm's way?

I never took mine off. I will never support this criminal gang or their unAmerican activities. I will support every act of subversive, every bit of opposition, and defend or protect anyone in harm's way because of deconstruction 2025. Felon traitor's enemies are my friends.

LT Barclay

(2,815 posts)
13. I thought that faded away and I was the only one left wearing it so I switched to an
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 12:10 AM
Jan 20

enameled white rose pin, which gives me plausible deniability if management asks questions.

pfitz59

(11,251 posts)
15. The National Guard and Reserve
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 02:47 AM
Jan 20

are not full-time soldiers. Activating them for an indefinite time for a nebulous mission will fuck with their real jobs.

Baron2024

(1,011 posts)
16. This Is A Very Important Story
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 04:00 AM
Jan 20

Resistance in the National Guard and the Military in general to Trump's illegal and unconstitutional actions will be critical. People should not resign. They should stay in the military and ally with others in the military who agree with them about not following illegal and unconstitutional orders. Soldiers take an oath to protect the U.S. Constitution. They are also trained to not follow illegal orders. We need people to stay in the Guard and the Military to form a resistance that is loyal to the Constitution, not to Trump. If people that are loyal to the Constitution and opposed to dictatorship leave the military only MAGA forces will remain. Or at least people that are not opposed to following illegal orders or supporting a Fascist Police State.

So there needs to be an organized alliance of soldiers in the military that opposes Trump's illegal plans. This is to prevent a complete takeover of the military by the MAGA forces. There also needs to be a cadre of top officers that are loyal to the Constitution, not to the Dictator Trump. I know General Milley is retired, but frankly he should be the one using his Pentagon contacts to organize this. He is the highest ranking and most visible officer that has come out against Trump and has even called him a wannabe Dictator. We need to maintain maximum loyalty to the Constitution in the military and maximum opposition to dictatorship.

This also applies to federal law enforcement as well, especially FBI but also other agencies. And this also applies to the federal government in general. We must maintain control over as much of the government as possible. If Trump does a mass firing of those who will not take loyalty oaths to him we must fight it in the courts but we should frankly use those people and form some sort of opposition government in blue states controlled by Democratic Governors and Democratic Legislatures. If Trump is going to form a Fascist Police State in this country, we have a natural right and a moral obligation to form a legal resistance and an opposition government.

As far as the MAGA gang going after criminals first, this is right out of the Nazi play book. First they go after undesirables. Once they normalize that, they expand their range and go after other populations. Originally the Nazis went after the mentally ill and the severely disabled. They made a euthanasia law and started executing the disabled and called it mercy killing. This was a dry run for the Holocaust. The program was called Aktion T4. Look it up, there is a Wikipedia article. Anyway once they developed the methods to kill the disabled and normalized it, they expanded the program and that was the start of the mass murders and the eventual formation of the death camps. These people start small and then expand. They must be stopped.

24601

(4,045 posts)
20. You will be disappointed if you believe there will organized resistance from any of the eight uniformed services.
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 10:09 AM
Jan 20

Service members individually must refuse to obey an illegal order - but it realistically must be on it's face illegal,
e.g. "Sergeant, are you really ordering me to shoot the prisoner?" or "Lieutenant, are you telling me to fire on the non-combatants?"

Organized resistance is mutiny. Article 94 of the UCMJ defines Mutiny and Sedition. Participation in, or failing to suppress mutiny or sedition by a member of the Uniformed Services may be punished by death or as a court-martial may direct.

The death penalty likely would apply only in wartime. "As a court-martial may direct" includes up to life without parole.

https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/894

Baron2024

(1,011 posts)
21. So
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 03:12 PM
Jan 20

So what should we do if and when soldiers are ordered to do something illegal like shooting demonstrators? What is the remedy? Or do we just let this new Police State roll over us with no resistance?

24601

(4,045 posts)
22. If you are not in the Uniformed Services, do whatever you want as long as you don't violate the federal or state laws
Mon Jan 20, 2025, 07:27 PM
Jan 20

applicable to everyone.

I was a Soldier for 25 years. If I was given an order that was on it's face illegal (and I never was), I would not have complied. If it's not clearly illegal, it's not in a Service Member's job jar to resolve. The Chain of command can sort it out in the courts...sorting it out in your court-martial for mutiny is a fatal move.

I'll add that civilian control over the military is an existential imperative. Derogate that to civilian control - if and the military feels like it - and you have already lost our nation before any election is ever factored in. Our adversaries would never wait for the dust to settle if it thought the military was ignoring civilian control.

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