they live in a state with stand your ground laws, castle doctrine, or other statutory legal uses to protect home and family?

ICE doesn't know what's on the other side of the door they are kicking in.

especially when they appear to be nothing more than unidentified masked bandits,
kidnappers and/or murderers.......




The fourth and second amendments still apply---!

And 'jury nullification' appears very likely to happen to me,
in any such instance....

Liberals also have guns. Republicans also have abortions.

This is falling right into Trump's hands. This is exactly what he wants so he has an excuse to order his ICE goons to shoot and kill more people."

His brain is mush, he could order this after watching something on TV. He wants to do it you know. May as well get ready.

It's no doubt that Trump believes he can rule by brute force. However, I refuse to be helpless against tyrants. And when ICE goons start getting dropped, they will be less likely to engage in their cosplay bullshit. There's a lot of patriotic veterans out here that are fed the fuck up. And there are a lot of active duty brass and troops that despise the piece of shit in the WH. The overwhelming evidence at this point is that the Trump criminal organization will not give up power voluntarily, regardless of election results. So we may be faced with a terrible choice, live on our knees or risk dying on our feet. I know what my choice is.

"The only way to make the Fugitive Slave Law a dead letter is to make half a dozen or more dead kidnappers."

Dems probably buy one gun, and its actually for protection. Rethugs want a model of every kind of gun.

and the second one likely less well than the first....

and, if they actually try to use two at once, that will detract
from any competence with the first....


I THINK, when Democrats are again in power---
we SHOULD take away guns from the far right,
and give them to the homeless, and people who have had their
SNAP benefits and Medicaid taken away by Republicans.....

or even simply tear-gassed or threatened by Trump's Nazis...


...


Yeah, I used the 'sarcasm' smilie here, but that might not be entirely honest....

It's perfectly understandable. The sad part is that anyone should feel the need to violently protect themselves from fellow Americans.

I want to give my friends at DU some advice if they are contemplating arming themselves. Before you do, go sit down in a quiet room. Think very deeply about what it means to fire a gun at someone. You must understand that you will seriously injure or kill them. Search your heart, your soul, pray on it if that's appropriate. Ask yourself, at the moment of crisis can I pull that trigger? If your answer is yes, think about it some more. Remember, real life is not the movies. You don't converse with your assailant. Nano seconds count. In war there is a one simple rule. In a fight it is him or me. Make damned sure it's him. The other side of the coin is that it is far worse to brandish a gun and then not be able to use it than it is to not have a gun at all. When you show your gun, you put him on notice that he is in mortal danger. He will opt for rule one. For a normal person the whole idea is horrific. Damn Trump to hell for making us have to have this conversation.

On a personal note, for years my ex badgered me to buy her a gun and teach her how to use it. I refused because I knew her well enough to know that if push came to shove, she would not use the gun. She would hesitate. As I said, in a crisis situation it is better to not have a gun than to scare an attacker into using their gun.

For as long as I can remember, I have scoffed at the NRA types that always said that the reason for the Second Amendment was so citizens could defend themselves against a tyrannical government. I never for a moment thought that was true. At this point it is hard to deny that they may have been right. I still hope with all my heart that they were wrong.

was once: skeet shooting. And I don’t think that counts.

A Texan friend, conservative but passionately antifa, anti-Trump, told me when he became 47, that I should get a gun. She’s very comfortable with them, I’m terrified of them. I live in CA and never see one.

I’m also 75 (she’s maybe 10 my junior) and know I cannot become comfortable enough using a gun no matter how many lessons I took.

For the reasons you cited, I won’t be arming. I,think I’d rather be the dead one than live with having killed another human.

a hypothetical future tyrannical government----

but they always argued that the real danger of such arising
would come from The LEFT, and NOT from the RIGHT---

and now that it has arrived from the RIGHT,
they refuse to admit it, and are no help at ALL!

Too many of them actually APPLAUD it!----

so their arguments for 'gun rights' in the defense of 'Liberty'
were complete BULLSHIT from the beginning!!!!


Jesus, TRUMP even argued that 'you can't take a gun to a protest'
even after open-carriers took over the Michigan Capital building in 2020,
in protest against COVID restrictions--- and now implies that any protester
against HIS government who is legally carrying a gun
DESERVES to be SHOT---

(and the masses of the 'gun-rights' crowd is mostly silent---
although even the NRA pointed out that these arguments
were flawed, as far as the 2nd Amendment and state laws were concerned--- !)



Judging by all the past rhetoric of the 2nd Amendment extremists,
TRUMP and several of his cabinet members ought to have a
PRICE on their head, by now! But..... most of them
would rather ignore the evidence of their own ears and eyes!





In my humble opinion, Thomas Crooks was a PROPHET---
although he may not have realized it at the time...

Thou shalt not trespass upon thee. They really fervently believe that.

Here is the one piece of evidence I don't think any gun owner can ignore. It is now clear that if ICE, or any DHS outfit, sees anyone armed with a gun they are going to assume that individual is hostile and they will act accordingly. They are not going to check party affiliation or ask about intent. Pretti was 100% legal. Didn't matter. They are just going to start shooting. The President of the United States of Dysfunction has said that's all okay. If that is true, the Second Amendment is as dead as the rest of the Bill of Rights.

Doing harm to the Second Amendment can be seem by the true believers and others to be another, and the most egregious, betrayal by Trump yet. I am going to wait and see if this issue will cause a sufficient rift that his core support deserts him.

Thomas Crooks wasn't a prophet. He was a poor lost soul that someone turned into a pawn and then discarded him with the trash. The whole affair stinks to high heaven.

Watch the whole thing before you comment.

you should start with AT LEAST a .38 caliber---
and a .357 or a shotgun would be better!

although multiple hits with a .22 might well 'do the job',
and sadly only one round killed off one of our political heroes with a head-shot, Robert F. Kennedy---
(but he wasn't actually attacking anyone...)


and sorry, I didn't watch the video... but suspect where it was going...

seems I was commenting more on something called "stopping power"
than whether you could kill someone with a 'good shot',
which one obviously could!


And as another liberal, I probably don't know too much either,
but I remember that particular term, back when I was more interested in guns
about 30 years ago.... (stopping power)

(also I owned a .22 semi-automatic handgun at that time which seemed like a piece of shit---
it JAMMED--- I returned it to the dealer and graduated to a .38 revolver---
within about a year, I liquidated my handguns, having lost interest...)

(( I may have thought I was safer WITHOUT any, as I may be the kind of person
who would 'hesitate' before pulling the trigger---
giving some assailant the opportunity to disarm me as use my own gun against me---))

Yeah, I doubt that.

So what are we, as liberal/progressives, supposed to do?
Not fight back and let his Brownshirts continue to injure and murder us?
What kind of strategy is that?

No thanks, I spent a very large portion of my life dedicated to protecting the Constitution and I'm not going to let him and his Nazi Brownshirts shred the Constitution without a fight.
Against this back drop, I've decided to purchase a Colt AR-15 with 3-30 round mags to keep in my home, along with my already owned Colt .45 ACP.

You may not agree with me, but that's the way it is and if you ultimately decide not to defend yourself with a firearm, that's your decision, but I will not go down that road.

I've been an atheist and liberal for my entire life. Solidly anti-2A, but for reasons dealing with the ACTUAL meaning of the amendment, not the "everyone can/should own a gun" crowd.

That being said, after 65 years, I purchased my first hand gun last year. I live in AZ, and there are plenty of irrational Trumptards surrounding me. I DO NOT want to be undefended with these Reich Wing lunatics everywhere.

I sometimes fear for my life do to the Fascism taking over our nation today.
If it comes to civil war, I WILL NOT GO DOWN WITHOUT A FIGHT.

Fuck these Nazis. They WILL NOT indocrinate me, under ANY circumstances. They are fucking GARBAGE, and need to be exterminated from human society forever.

I'm sorry if most of our breateren reject guns, owning guns, and having guns. We are FAR, FAR BEYOND the "gun control" discussion. We are now faced with possible civil war. It's not North vs South, it's Democracy and freedom vs oppression and subjugation.
This is now Nazi Germany 2.0. It's is no longer a "policy discussion". It is life and death.

As a liberal, I am getting armed. Sad, but necessay.

Twenty-some years ago, 'open carry' was legal (but hardly anyone did)---
but there WAS no legal option for 'concealed-carry' as he told me...

I guess those laws have changed now, as you say here??

Now anybody and their dog can conceal-carry without any permit?

(seems the direction of Republican 'gun policy')....

with reciprocity agreements with AZ, one needs an AZ concealed carry license to carry in those other states, which is the route I took.

I know the first two rules of guns. I'm not afraid. Anyone trying to break into my house should be. It'll be the last house they break into.

People seem to forget the two rules that matter.

(It is probably my favorite line from the movie 'Phantasm'!)

can be a prelude to a civil war.

America has had quite a few civil wars.

Perhaps one is looming now?

that being caused over the issue of black slavery, 1861-1865......


whether another is 'looming' now remains to be seen...

No, to protect oneself from Trump’s fascist criminals – no different than any other criminal seeking to do harm.

There’s nothing in the history, text, or case law of the Second Amendment that authorizes private citizens to take up arms in violent rebellion against a lawfully established government perceived to have become 'tyrannical' – conservatives who make such an argument are factually wrong.

The Framers would never amend the Constitution to authorize the destruction of the Republic they just created.

The Second Amendment codifies an individual right to self-defense, and to possess a firearm pursuant to that right – such as defending against criminals seeking to do harm.

And that those criminals seeking to do harm might be Federal agents doesn’t mitigate that right.

"a hypothetical future tyrannical government" that was MY quote



mistakes happen now, nerves are short!!!!

the universal law of cause and effect, where every action, thought, or word creates a corresponding, inevitable reaction.

Sounds like the universal law is rearing its’ head again.

Wait until they find out Liberals also served in the military. In combat.

They wanted the boots on people's necks to be their own. I never was under any illusions about what the firearms were for. I am an Army veteran and long time firearm owner.