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Rhiannon12866

(222,238 posts)
Mon Oct 2, 2023, 09:05 PM Oct 2023

'Not much of a legal case': Neal Katyal shreds Donald Trump's defense in civil fraud case - The Beat



Donald Trump’s civil fraud trial is underway. Trump’s defense team claims he did not commit a crime and that there is more than one way to find value for a property. MSNBC’s Katie Phang reports on Trump’s defense and is joined by Former Acting Solicitor General Neal Katyal and former SDNY civil attorney Maya Wiley. Katyal calls Trump’s defense “not much of a legal case.” - Aired on 10/02/2023.


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'Not much of a legal case': Neal Katyal shreds Donald Trump's defense in civil fraud case - The Beat (Original Post) Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 OP
Statement of the fairly obvious: Jarqui Oct 2023 #1
Thank you so much for the detailed explanation. Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #2
"How dare the Banks believe anything I said in writing" MagaSmash Oct 2023 #3
Rep. Moskowitz calls for Palm Beach County to tax Mar-a-Lago at the rate Trump claims it's worth LetMyPeopleVote Oct 2023 #4
That would be well deserved, but his neighbors would not be happy... Rhiannon12866 Oct 2023 #5

Jarqui

(10,490 posts)
1. Statement of the fairly obvious:
Tue Oct 3, 2023, 05:09 AM
Oct 2023

Likely inaccurate assumption: Trump's lawyers are correct when they claim the banks made over
$100 million on Trump's loans. But let's play along with that for a moment.

Loans are about risk. If one has a lot of assets and not a lot of debt, then the interest rate for the loan is going to be lower because the chances the bank can get their money back is greater than one who doesn't have as many assets to offer as collateral for the loan. A pretty simple concept.

If Trump lied to the bank (which the judge effectively ruled he did) by representing that he was worth (for example) $3 billion instead of $1 billion, a bank that did not realize they had been lied to would give Trump a loan at a considerably lower interest rate. Instead of making $100 million for their bank loans, they could have made $150-200 million (loose example) if Trump had provided accurate figures to properly compensate them for their risk. It is a very simple business concept.

So although the banks may have made some money on the Trump loans, Trump defrauded the banks of income to get a lower interest rate.

People do things for a reason. Trump lied about his net worth for financial reasons: to cheat banks out of the fair interest they deserved, to cheat insurance companies out of the fair compensation they deserved and to cheat the government out of taxes. Just because the banks got some money, the insurance companies got some money and the government got some taxes doesn't mean Trump didn't defraud them them of what was rightfully due to them.

This is a snake oil salesman shell game argument to dupe folks via the media.

Trump Foundation charity was shutdown for fraudulent reasons and levied $2 million in damages.
Trump University was shutdown for fraudulent reasons and levied $25 million in damages.
Trump organization was found guilty last fall of 17 felonies of fraud and tax evasion.
Trump CFO Alan Weisselberg was found guilty last summer of 15 felonies of fraud and tax evasion.
Trump lawyer Michael Cohen was found guilty of 6 felonies of fraud and tax evasion.
The judge in this NY Civil case agreed that NY AG made her case that Trump had engaged in rampant fraud - her strong case was beyond reasonable debate.

The debate now is how much Trump is going to have to pay as he's already lost control of his companies that are being handed to a receiver.

The media should be laying out the above better than they have. Falling for "the bank got $100 million" is exactly what the fraudster wants them to do - to ignore the millions he cheated them out of. Likewise the insurance companies and governments who got ripped off.

Rhiannon12866

(222,238 posts)
2. Thank you so much for the detailed explanation.
Tue Oct 3, 2023, 05:15 AM
Oct 2023

It's a relief that he's finally facing the consequences for a lifetime of cheating - everyone.

LetMyPeopleVote

(154,542 posts)
4. Rep. Moskowitz calls for Palm Beach County to tax Mar-a-Lago at the rate Trump claims it's worth
Thu Oct 5, 2023, 02:38 PM
Oct 2023

TFG has Mar-a-Lago appraised for around $25 million and so has been committing tax fraud



https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/donald-trump/rep-jared-moskowitz-calls-palm-beach-county-tax-mar-lago-rate-trump-cl-rcna119042

A Democratic House member is asking Palm Beach County, Florida, to tax Donald Trump’s Mar-a-Lago property at the rate the former president claims it is worth amid his ongoing civil fraud trial in New York.

In a letter provided exclusively to NBC News, Rep. Jared Moskowitz, D-Fla., issued the request to Dorothy Jacks, Palm Beach County's property appraiser.

Moskowitz noted New York Judge Arthur Engoron’s ruling last week saying that Trump repeatedly committed acts of fraud for years. Engoron ruled that Trump lied to banks and insurers by overvaluing and undervaluing his assets while exaggerating his net worth to billions of dollars.

Trump has raged against Engoron’s ruling, insisting that his Florida resort is worth “50 to 100 times” what prosecutors in the New York civil case have said, or “closer to $1.5 billion.”

“Between 2011 and 2021, you value the Mar-a-Lago property between $18 million and $28 million,” Moskowitz wrote in the letter to the Palm Beach County appraiser.

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