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NNadir

(34,664 posts)
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 02:50 PM Oct 24

Vanity Question: Did you ever consider yourself good looking, or conversely, ugly?

Last edited Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:23 PM - Edit history (1)

I had a friend, a real good looking guy - a real friend - who tried to pick me up when I was really, really, really down on myself, who said he wished he looked like me. It was a long time ago, but I remember it because it seemed so weird. I felt - and a part of it was psychological - extremely ugly, extremely unattractive, although if I look at pictures from that time of my life, I was sort of average looking, if unkempt from poor grooming habits.

Anyway, with gentle praise and advice, that guy saved my life. We've drifted apart, but I will never exhaust my gratitude to him for what he did in that time and place.

Lately, as my life winds down and I reflect on it, I've taken to looking at pictures of my wife from early in our marriage, and in one or two, I don't look entirely bad, but to tell the truth, in those pictures that really capture her beauty in which I also appear, I tend to crop myself out using imaging tools. I like them better that way, without me.

Now, when I'm photographed, I feel I look like Mr. Potatohead, which is not to insult a fresh Mr. Potatohead, but one made after the Potato has been stored in the closet too long, left out in the rain, or in the sun.

I had to give a talk on line recently, and I had to ask my assistant in preparing for it with a picture, if we could find any picture that was remotely appealing. (She's a good kid, and managed to get something not entirely indecent by making me laugh when taking new pictures.)

One of the remarkable things about my wife, which I never really understood, was that among women that beautiful in a purely physical way, she had no trace of vanity; knowing her well, I understand that too, was psychological; her emotional state when I first knew her didn't admit to beauty in herself, although it did among us puerile men.

And I do think that many people have experienced, as I have, thinking a person beautiful when first seeing them until something about them focused one's attention on their physical flaws and makes them less attractive, or conversely, someone who seemed plain until they came to be seen as extremely beautiful because of something in their manner.

I'm interested to know how people felt about their appearance and more importantly, how they felt about their physical appearance was affected by their psychological state.

63 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Vanity Question: Did you ever consider yourself good looking, or conversely, ugly? (Original Post) NNadir Oct 24 OP
Objectively speaking I'm probably just garden-variety homely, Ocelot II Oct 24 #1
What Ocelot said. quaint Oct 24 #10
I've never had True Dough Oct 25 #16
Beauty is a Lie JoseBalow Oct 24 #2
Similar to: Twinkle, Twinkle, little star keithbvadu2 Oct 24 #3
I like that wit. A joke from Abraham Lincoln... NNadir Oct 24 #4
At one point in the Lincoln -- Douglas debates, Douglas accused Lincoln of being two faced. rsdsharp Oct 25 #34
Yes, I know that story, a classic. Thanks for the reminder. n/t. NNadir Oct 25 #36
I think I am very attractive- but I haven't really looked closely at myself in a mirror for years Redleg Oct 24 #5
Very good. Are you also happy with yourself as a person? Do you feel satisfied with your life? Feel free... NNadir Oct 24 #6
Sure- my looks don't seem to have much impact on my psychological well-being Redleg Oct 29 #53
That's good to hear. As physically unattractive as I am now... NNadir Oct 29 #55
That is good to hear- although I hope you don't leave anytime soon Redleg Oct 30 #58
Beware of the mirror. Sometimes it tells the truth. Sometimes we do not listen. keithbvadu2 Oct 24 #7
LOL Redleg Oct 29 #54
Don't give a sh.. medium ugly. duncang Oct 24 #8
I confess to getting physically uglier as I age, although ozempic has taken a bit of the edge off, but that said... NNadir Oct 24 #9
I wouldn't snag lightning. Solly Mack Oct 24 #11
I have kind of a different take on attractiveness. LuckyCharms Oct 24 #12
A good and thoughtful answer. n/t. NNadir Oct 24 #13
I bet True Dough Oct 25 #17
C'mon True Dough. LuckyCharms Oct 25 #19
We're still communicating. True Dough Oct 25 #20
You left your boxer briefs on my bedroom floor, and my wife found them. LuckyCharms Oct 25 #23
Yeah, but you didn't tell her True Dough Oct 25 #24
Damnit! I thought because you didn't answer me quickly... LuckyCharms Oct 25 #26
You're always a winner True Dough Oct 25 #27
Well thank you. People do tell me I'm a "real winner". LuckyCharms Oct 25 #28
I am middle aged to old, Kali Oct 25 #14
I agree with you about invisibility not being all bad. There was a time in my life when I WAS invisible more or... NNadir Oct 25 #15
mostly I enjoy it Kali Oct 25 #25
There was a time in my life, when despairing of ever being in love again, I resolved to spend my time doing what I... NNadir Oct 25 #38
This is absolute wisdom! GenThePerservering Oct 30 #61
At best, I'm an average-looking bloke True Dough Oct 25 #18
You're a beautiful man, True Dough, and I bet your LuckyCharms Oct 25 #21
I'm more of a True Dough Oct 25 #22
Aw jeez dweller Oct 25 #31
I like True Dough Oct 25 #32
Not really dweller Oct 25 #33
I always considered myself average looking. I lost my wife four years ago and after grieving for a couple of years... brush Oct 25 #29
After my mother died, my father, who had lost most of his teeth and most of his hair, started dating at my suggestion. NNadir Oct 25 #35
I appear as a wise Senior lady who smiles easily. Tikki Oct 25 #30
And that, of course, is beautiful. n/t. NNadir Oct 25 #37
I like saying "Face courtesy of General Motors..." Archae Oct 25 #39
You're better looking that I am, not that I'm going to try running into a Buick to improve my looks. I did... NNadir Oct 25 #40
You look fine to me. Boomerproud Oct 26 #50
Interesting. I was raised Catholic-guilt/modesty, yes doting feminine relatives goofing yet UTUSN Oct 25 #41
It was a problem similar to that my wife had when young. I remember once when she visited me when we were still... NNadir Oct 26 #42
One thing I've found is it is impossible to be jealous of physical beauty when the person is kind. quaint Oct 26 #43
Neither. I always considered myself average sakabatou Oct 26 #44
I have never.... Dem4life1234 Oct 26 #45
That would be my point, with which you apparently agree. Who one is is more more important than how one looks. NNadir Oct 26 #46
I'm not photogenic Niagara Oct 26 #47
Nice personal shot. NNadir Oct 26 #48
Hahaha :) Niagara Oct 26 #49
OMG... LuckyCharms Oct 26 #51
I am working Goatguy Oct 26 #52
I feel I am pretty plain and unappealing. My husband disagrees. (n/t) OldBaldy1701E Oct 29 #56
We haven't met, but I'm guessing in this case your husband is absolutely right. NNadir Oct 29 #57
When I was growing up, I thought I was ugly. Aristus Oct 30 #59
I was always called "interesting looking" GenThePerservering Oct 30 #60
Looking interesting goes well with being interesting. I can't say that I know men who "neg" and "rag" to women... NNadir Oct 31 #63
I was a cute kid, but... LudwigPastorius Oct 31 #62

Ocelot II

(120,858 posts)
1. Objectively speaking I'm probably just garden-variety homely,
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:07 PM
Oct 24

but some days I look in the mirror and feel like I'm as ugly as armful of assholes. I avoid being photographed whenever possible because all I see are the flaws, which are many. Probably nobody else really cares, though.

quaint

(3,546 posts)
10. What Ocelot said.
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 04:24 PM
Oct 24

I am working on a family photo collage wall and was actually surprised to see I was not close-your-eyes ugly, and shocked that I didn't look fat, which in those years I was convinced I was, though I was barely 100 pounds. Twas the Twiggy generation, not The Kardashians.

True Dough

(20,275 posts)
16. I've never had
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:01 PM
Oct 25

more than a handful of assholes at a time. An armful would be, well, an armful!

You probably look fine to everyone else. But here's the thing, you're smaht, wicked smaht. You can't fake that, as some people have attempted:

In a recent interview, Alina Habba, who represented Trump in the E. Jean Carroll defamation case, was asked whether she would rather be pretty or smart. She said, “Oh easy, pretty … I can fake being smart.”


https://abovethelaw.com/2024/02/alina-would-you-rather-be-smart-or-pretty/

We can all see she's never quite pulled it off!

keithbvadu2

(40,120 posts)
3. Similar to: Twinkle, Twinkle, little star
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:10 PM
Oct 24

Oh, I know how homely I are...
I know my face ain't no star...
But I really don't mind it...
Because I'm behind it...
It's the folks in the front that I jar.......

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
4. I like that wit. A joke from Abraham Lincoln...
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:21 PM
Oct 24

Lincoln told a story about himself walking in the woods when he came upon a man with a gun.

The man looked at him and said, "Sir, I have no quarrel with you, but I'm afraid I must shoot you, because I have vowed that if I ever met a man uglier than I am, I would kill him."

Lincoln said he opened his shirt and said, "Sir, fire away, because if I am truly uglier than you, I do not deserve to live."

By his contemporaries Lincoln was generally regarded as an ugly man, but today we all see his face has beautiful, kindly, and deep.

That is, I think, an example of how one's looks are controlled, in the end at least, by who one is.

rsdsharp

(10,121 posts)
34. At one point in the Lincoln -- Douglas debates, Douglas accused Lincoln of being two faced.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:54 PM
Oct 25

Lincoln replied, “If I had another face, do you think I’d wear this one?”

Redleg

(6,142 posts)
5. I think I am very attractive- but I haven't really looked closely at myself in a mirror for years
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:23 PM
Oct 24

I did look good in photos from 20 years ago.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
6. Very good. Are you also happy with yourself as a person? Do you feel satisfied with your life? Feel free...
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 03:29 PM
Oct 24

...to not comment if these questions are too personal or intrusive.

Redleg

(6,142 posts)
53. Sure- my looks don't seem to have much impact on my psychological well-being
Tue Oct 29, 2024, 12:13 PM
Oct 29

or overall satisfaction with my life. They didn't matter much when I was more attractive either.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
55. That's good to hear. As physically unattractive as I am now...
Tue Oct 29, 2024, 01:06 PM
Oct 29

...this is the best time in my life, even as the time to leave it approaches.

Redleg

(6,142 posts)
58. That is good to hear- although I hope you don't leave anytime soon
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:19 PM
Oct 30

I still have 7 years to retirement and hope I can make it with all the changes occurring in academia. My university is offering more accelerated online courses which are a bear and not as enjoyable as a regular face-to-face class. Plus we are still getting our heads around using AI.

duncang

(3,599 posts)
8. Don't give a sh.. medium ugly.
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 04:12 PM
Oct 24

Squinty eyes and nose getting bigger. But that’s expected in my family. Still have all my hair. Getting old comes with a lot of changes.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
9. I confess to getting physically uglier as I age, although ozempic has taken a bit of the edge off, but that said...
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 04:17 PM
Oct 24

...I feel far less ugly inside myself than I did when I was young, thin, and in good shape if not emotionally, and in appearance, in terms of physical endurance and strength.

I feel as if I have lived and will leave something to the future, my beloved sons, and that has made my life, if certainly not my face, wonderful and worth living, in the last case, the joy of being with my wife.

LuckyCharms

(18,976 posts)
12. I have kind of a different take on attractiveness.
Thu Oct 24, 2024, 07:37 PM
Oct 24

Sitting here thinking about your post, I honestly cannot think of anyone in my recent past or long ago past that I would view as ugly.

I don't see beauty as perfection. Concurrently, I can't find "beauty" in someone unless they also have a noticeable flaw.

I also have difficulty in finding ANYONE beautiful unless I know at least a bit about their personality.

As far as whether I think I'm good looking or ugly...that's a determination for others to make, and not me. It doesn't matter to me how I think I look. It matters to me how I feel inside about myself.

LuckyCharms

(18,976 posts)
19. C'mon True Dough.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:05 PM
Oct 25

You know exactly how I feel inside.

Or was I just another one night stand for you?

Just another play thing?

LuckyCharms

(18,976 posts)
23. You left your boxer briefs on my bedroom floor, and my wife found them.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:11 PM
Oct 25

I had to think quick, and tell her they were mine.

She said "they can't be, the pouch in the front is way too big".

Kali

(55,739 posts)
14. I am middle aged to old,
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 04:11 PM
Oct 25

fat, and female. apparently I am neither ugly nor attractive, just invisible. which ain't all bad

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
15. I agree with you about invisibility not being all bad. There was a time in my life when I WAS invisible more or...
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 04:19 PM
Oct 25

...or less, and I recall it with some mixture of joy and grief.

One thing that happened was that I changed my musical tastes, became a very good guitarist - which I no longer am, having stopped playing in part because I'm not invisible anymore and couldn't be if I wanted to - learned a lot about writing, and basically began to understand myself and made my first steps toward choosing a profession I would come to love.

On the other side, I was lonely, a little depressed at times, but at the end of the day, it made me stronger, the invisibility.

Kali

(55,739 posts)
25. mostly I enjoy it
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:25 PM
Oct 25

occasionally I have to get loud to be heard when I feel the need. I have never really felt lonely - perhaps slightly in early adulthood but have no real problem spending time and thought with myself. more people should learn to feel comfortable alone (especially by turning off the damn television).

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
38. There was a time in my life, when despairing of ever being in love again, I resolved to spend my time doing what I...
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:18 PM
Oct 25

...called "beautiful things." This involved trips to museums, concerts, hikes in the wilderness, listening to and experimenting with new music, playing the guitar and singing to myself, reading, then reading, and then reading some more, skiing alone, thinking, writing.

I think my future wife would have had nothing to do with me were I not doing these things, because as we became friends, well before we were lovers, she tagged along for my formerly private adventures, and grew to like me, to feel better when we together.

I have a sister-in-law who never married, and who had fairly miserable relationships with men, who I have tried to counsel in these 40 years I've known her, since she was an adolescent, and through her adult life. She is in her 50s and obsessed with getting married; in her desperation, she ends up with some real losers.

I told her about doing beautiful things, but regrettably, she doesn't understand that she should do this for herself, but thinks it's a way to fall in love. I guess I told the story incorrectly. She doesn't get it, and I can't make her understand it. It wasn't about meeting and befriending my future wife, although that was the outcome. It was about seeing the beauty in the world for oneself. If one does that, life is worth living, with or without other people in it.

Good for you; you have peace and deserve it, I'm sure.

GenThePerservering

(2,630 posts)
61. This is absolute wisdom!
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:21 PM
Oct 30

and is the way.

No matter what happens, you are far the richer for it.

I have a friend who is constantly looking for a man and I keep trying to tell her not to worry about it, do what is good for her and for the world around her - do those beautiful things. I think it may finally be sinking in.

True Dough

(20,275 posts)
18. At best, I'm an average-looking bloke
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:04 PM
Oct 25

Somehow I managed to attract a much better looking spouse. Don't ask me how that happened, but it did. You can all attest to my lack of charm, so it's a real mystery.

LuckyCharms

(18,976 posts)
21. You're a beautiful man, True Dough, and I bet your
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:08 PM
Oct 25

teeth go *Bing* and sparkle when you smile, like those handsome guys in movies.

brush

(57,517 posts)
29. I always considered myself average looking. I lost my wife four years ago and after grieving for a couple of years...
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:35 PM
Oct 25

and lonely, I posted some photos on an online dating site and got several responses and positive comments.

It surprised me.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
35. After my mother died, my father, who had lost most of his teeth and most of his hair, started dating at my suggestion.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:01 PM
Oct 25

I had no idea how popular he was to become; lots of women pursued him.

Of course, he did what he didn't do, except on special occasions when my mother was alive, which was to wear his dentures, which were fairly uncomfortable.

He was a handsome young man, but when he aged, well, not so much.

He met ultimately, and married, a marvelous woman, who, although I was in my twenties when I served as his best man, I regarded as my stepmother. I called her "Mom," not out disrespect to my real mother, who I also loved, but because she loved my father so much, and by extension, me, as if I were one of her own 5 sons. (She's still alive, in her 90's, and when I can, I go to see her. My father's been dead for over 30 years.) After he married my stepmother, of course, the dentures were mostly in a drawer, except on special occasions.

Good for you to be dating. May you love again.

(I told my wife that when I kick off, she should try to pick up men at my funeral; she doesn't like it, but it's what I think.)

Tikki

(14,795 posts)
30. I appear as a wise Senior lady who smiles easily.
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 07:39 PM
Oct 25

I am a happy Senior lady. Maybe it all works together.

Tikki

Archae

(46,807 posts)
39. I like saying "Face courtesy of General Motors..."
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:29 PM
Oct 25

Since i had my face messed up from a head-on collision with a Buick.


NNadir

(34,664 posts)
40. You're better looking that I am, not that I'm going to try running into a Buick to improve my looks. I did...
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:36 PM
Oct 25

...once total a Volkswagen with my bicycle and my body, but it didn't mess up my face - other accidents did that - but it did leave a huge scar on the back of my head, which emerged after I went bald. No one says anything about it though.

Congrats on your survival.

UTUSN

(72,420 posts)
41. Interesting. I was raised Catholic-guilt/modesty, yes doting feminine relatives goofing yet
Fri Oct 25, 2024, 10:46 PM
Oct 25

with the simultaneous strongly put-down culture. So I never developed the vanity, never primped or thought full-of-self. Yet have somehow encountered "somes" who thought I was self-smitten, me who never lingered on a mirror. I went blank when a woman supervisor said, "I bet you look in the mirror all the time." Huh? And, truly, I've never thought shit about myself, and now by whatever porn standards I'm nowhere there. Yet, am on the fringe of whatever.

I'll say this, have seen many masculines being *very* self-absorbed.




NNadir

(34,664 posts)
42. It was a problem similar to that my wife had when young. I remember once when she visited me when we were still...
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 08:13 AM
Oct 26

..."just friends," where she said that she felt that men were mostly interested in her because, as she put it, "they just want to lay me."

Maybe she was testing me to see what I'd say; it was certainly a little more than awkward. That's probably why, decades later, I still remember that conversation.

I confess that at the very beginning, like many other men, I was drawn to her by the fact that she was very sexy, very good looking. Of course, like other men, I made a point of talking to women like that, but usually the conversation didn't last all that long, nor did any friendship develop. It's certainly the case that no woman would date me because I was handsome. I certainly wasn't a male case of "eye candy."

With her, it was very different; after getting past her looks, I could immediately see what a fine, intelligent, and friendly person she was. I very much enjoyed being with her as a friend, and still do, even if we are now "more than friends." I've never had such a wonderful friendship and never will again.

I'll say this: One of the things that led me to stay interested in my future wife was her complete lack of vanity.

She kind of felt that her looks were more of a problem than a benefit. She certainly had to work out of some very difficult situations with men.

Reflecting on on what first drew me to her, I was pretty shallow when I met her, but apparently we got past it; she taught me to grow up.

Of course, people assumed she was vain, as they may do of you, but it sounds like you know how to shrug it off and simply be who you are, which is a very good thing.

quaint

(3,546 posts)
43. One thing I've found is it is impossible to be jealous of physical beauty when the person is kind.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 08:43 AM
Oct 26

Raised Maronite Catholic and fundamentalist Presbyterian making me the guiltiest child ever.

Dem4life1234

(1,587 posts)
45. I have never....
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 11:48 AM
Oct 26

I have never been into the extremely gorgeous pretty boys, I like them slightly above average with maybe a crooked teeth or two.

If they are average and have charm, I'm am putty in their hands.

Charisma>>>>good looks anyday!

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
46. That would be my point, with which you apparently agree. Who one is is more more important than how one looks.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:01 PM
Oct 26

Niagara

(9,586 posts)
47. I'm not photogenic
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:18 PM
Oct 26

I have some really nice photos of myself but these photo's are older they do not reveal my current age.


It seems like today, I attempt to take a photo and it looks nothing like what I see in the mirror. The photos are terrible.


I'm not photogenic at all. I look much better in person. I had a random lady back in July tell me that I could be a model. She specifically stated that she wasn't hitting on me but for a moment I thought she might have been smoking crack-cocaine. I gave her a hug anyway.


NNadir

(34,664 posts)
48. Nice personal shot.
Sat Oct 26, 2024, 12:21 PM
Oct 26

My wife would kill me if I posted a picture of either of us on line, but if that's you, well, I'm jealous.

(I know the movie; which was fun.)

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
57. We haven't met, but I'm guessing in this case your husband is absolutely right.
Tue Oct 29, 2024, 05:42 PM
Oct 29

He sees what he sees, and what he sees is who you are, and that, my friend, is all he needs to see.

Aristus

(68,357 posts)
59. When I was growing up, I thought I was ugly.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:51 PM
Oct 30

It didn't help that a girl I liked in school told me to my face that she didn't like me because I was fat and ugly.

I look just like my father, and people were always saying how handsome my father was; so I wondered if it missed a generation or something.

As I got into my twenties and started to have more success with women, I realized looks mattered less than how one behaves and how one treats other people. Then I fell in love with and married a gorgeous woman who looks like Rita Wilson, Mimi Rogers, and Dana Delaney all rolled into one, and realized however I looked, it couldn't be that bad.

A few years ago, someone said I look like Jon Favreau, and I realized, I could look a lot worse.

GenThePerservering

(2,630 posts)
60. I was always called "interesting looking"
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 11:19 PM
Oct 30

by my female relatives, which is nice-speak for "homely".

Young women need to understand that men are great at 'negging' i.e., ragging on a woman for her looks or some perceived deficiency so she'll get so run down she'll date his sorry ass.

So they can't believe what most of them say.

NNadir

(34,664 posts)
63. Looking interesting goes well with being interesting. I can't say that I know men who "neg" and "rag" to women...
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 11:17 AM
Oct 31

...about their looks, but if there are some - I'll take your word for it - it follows that they are the types who become ugly by appeal to ugliness.

It's a nice filter to have, I think; saves wasting time.

LudwigPastorius

(10,805 posts)
62. I was a cute kid, but...
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 12:22 AM
Oct 31

puberty kicked in and a weak chin, large ears and nose went from looking "elfin" and "waif-like" to "Yeccchhh".

I know I'm not attractive, but I work on not giving a fuck about it. It's hard.

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