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ck4829

(35,900 posts)
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 09:45 AM Jun 2022

'Want To Cry': Bill for Uninsured Hospital Stay in Italy Stuns Americans

Last edited Tue Nov 22, 2022, 09:46 AM - Edit history (1)

The disparity between the charges incurred by patients in the U.S. compared with other countries was thrown into sharp focus after a man who underwent surgery and spent a week in an Italian hospital without insurance shared a screenshot of his total bill.

The Italian national, posting to Reddit as byJoi, told Newsweek he suffered a series of bone, ligament and tendon injuries around one of his knees while skiing with friends in the Alps.

"I was immediately brought into the ER, got an MRI and was then scheduled for surgery," he said. ByJoi said he went on to spend a week in the hospital while he recovered and has also undergone physiotherapy since the accident.

At the time, he had feared his medical costs would be substantial as he had no form of insurance when the accident occurred. However, when he eventually got the bill, he was relieved and delighted to see it was just €53.78, which equates to $56.53.

https://www.newsweek.com/bill-uninsured-hospital-stayitaly-stuns-americans-cry-1716807

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'Want To Cry': Bill for Uninsured Hospital Stay in Italy Stuns Americans (Original Post) ck4829 Jun 2022 OP
Good for Newsweek KS Toronado Jun 2022 #1
Thats cool the Italians would cover the costs.... TheRealNorth Jun 2022 #2
It's not as though he went there with the express intention of having surgery. PoindexterOglethorpe Jun 2022 #3
The injured man They_Live Jun 2022 #5
Ah I missed that. TheRealNorth Jun 2022 #6
Me too, the first time around. They_Live Jun 2022 #7
I hear you on the time frame Quanto Magnus Jun 2022 #33
Italian enid602 Jun 2022 #41
They either cover tourists or the Ski place does IbogaProject Jun 2022 #4
I can tell you exactly what my conservative relatives would say about that. Diamond_Dog Jun 2022 #8
Italy tax rates James48 Jun 2022 #17
that's a pretty sweet deal IronLionZion Jun 2022 #25
In 2019 my sister was on a cruise with us in Europe kimbutgar Jun 2022 #9
But Millionaire Florida US Senator Rick Scott thinks Americans are spoiled Vogon_Glory Jun 2022 #10
Rick Scott is possibly the worst of them and he's, amazingly, a current US Senator. jaxexpat Jun 2022 #35
Rick Scott is possibly the worst of them and he's, amazingly, a current US Senator. jaxexpat Jun 2022 #36
I had a similar experience in Venice unc70 Jun 2022 #11
Just had minor breast cancer surgery 90,000 in & out same day Oppaloopa Jun 2022 #12
One of my daughters gave birth in Germany - hospital and much more paid by the German gov't. erronis Jun 2022 #13
Can you see that happening in the United States? Diamond_Dog Jun 2022 #21
You mean the babies those same Republicans are going to force by law to be born? Volaris Jun 2022 #29
Our system is really f'd up. I long for some single payer system, but its dead for now. Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #47
The Italians have different values dlk Jun 2022 #14
After flying to Paris a few years back tavernier Jun 2022 #15
Morocco hospital ER bill keithbvadu2 Jun 2022 #16
Hosted and mentored international students Marthe48 Jun 2022 #18
Italian health care azureblue Jun 2022 #19
When I lived in Taiwan geardaddy Jun 2022 #20
When Taiwan was evaluating systems around the world for which to adopt IronLionZion Jun 2022 #24
Interesting. I didn't know that. geardaddy Jun 2022 #27
A friend's wife has dual citizenship. LudwigPastorius Jun 2022 #40
The US rations care by cost IronLionZion Jun 2022 #22
"Uninsured" is misleading. So is "he had no form of insurance." CaptainTruth Jun 2022 #23
I agree. This shouldn't be anything to do with "insurance". It should be a right provided by the gov erronis Jun 2022 #30
Reddit thread that this article is based on: sl8 Jun 2022 #26
I live in LittleGirl Jun 2022 #28
I have supposedly great insurance. onecaliberal Jun 2022 #31
In 2022 the Medicare Maximum Out of Pocket is $7550. Who the F has that much to spend yearly Ziggysmom Jun 2022 #32
I had the same experience in Canada. Why can't we do this? Well, we could if the GOP didn't block Martin68 Jun 2022 #34
They are the problem at every turn. Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #48
I've been told we all just want "free shit" tho. n/m BradAllison Jun 2022 #37
My mom had a hemorrhagic stroke a few months ago. LudwigPastorius Jun 2022 #38
I've had to refinance my house twice MontanaMama Jun 2022 #39
I'm self employed too Unwind Your Mind Jun 2022 #46
That is so f'd. I am so sorry we seem unable to do better. Maddening. Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #49
Perfect example jonstl08 Jun 2022 #51
THIS. MontanaMama Jun 2022 #52
Congress and the Supreme Court will continue to do their sworn duty. mn9driver Jun 2022 #42
2016 in London jonstl08 Jun 2022 #43
Your last line sums it up. We are brainwashed into thinking this is impossible here. Evolve Dammit Jun 2022 #50
In Canada, I got a condition, had an operation that cured it, never saw ANY bill. . . . nt Bernardo de La Paz Jun 2022 #44
Our problem is healthcare insurance companies. The Jungle 1 Jun 2022 #45

TheRealNorth

(9,629 posts)
2. Thats cool the Italians would cover the costs....
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 09:51 AM
Jun 2022

But really, situations like this being popularized is going to cause an end to it, because its not really fair to the Italians.

On a side note- the other missing part of this story is that there doesn't appear it took 6 months to have the surgery like Republicans would have us believe. Hell, i had to wait almost 2 months to have my ACL repaired in 1996, and the copay probably came out to around $1500 back then.

PoindexterOglethorpe

(26,727 posts)
3. It's not as though he went there with the express intention of having surgery.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 09:55 AM
Jun 2022

He had an accident requiring it.

I doubt they will pay for anything remotely elective for Americans who imply fly in for whatever.

But that's EXACTLY what it should be like in our country.

Quanto Magnus

(1,010 posts)
33. I hear you on the time frame
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:19 PM
Jun 2022

I suffered a work injury.

Herniated 3 discs in my neck and 2 partial herniations (buldging) in the lower back.

I was hurt in Nov 2007.... Because it was worker's comp and the insurer fought it every step of the way, even though their own doctors said I needed neck surgery, it took just under 2 years for me to get. That whole time, I was suffering out of my mind pain levels and causing more damage to my neck....

Back surgery took another year plus past that.

The big trick is they have this whole process through a 'front line' of people who's whole job is to deny any request. That forces everyone through an appeal process. Then, another layer of denial....

It's a very twisted system. They claim to use doctors, however that's not true. I had a chiropractors making the decisions on my neck surgery. Not to disparage chiropractors, but they should not be making decision about surgery.

Our healthcare system is broken and only benefits the insurance companies.

IbogaProject

(3,645 posts)
4. They either cover tourists or the Ski place does
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 09:55 AM
Jun 2022

First they don't have the crazy billing. Second they may just find the hospitals so no corporations other than the equipment suppliers. Third they either cover tourism or the Ski place pay fees to cover injuries. But amazing however they have it set up.
I spend 16, 17 days on a ventilator for a systemic staph infection and pneumonia. Just over a month in tge hospital. More than half in very intensive care. The entire bill was under $20k and after my gf and mom paid a few grand while I was there the rest was cleared with their next national budget. Everyone would do better with single payer everyone covered every time. Eventually our emergency rooms would hopefully get less overloaded and chaotic, which could also improve some rich person's outcome.

Diamond_Dog

(34,612 posts)
8. I can tell you exactly what my conservative relatives would say about that.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:05 AM
Jun 2022

“They probably pay an absurdly high amount of taxes over there.”

James48

(4,596 posts)
17. Italy tax rates
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:23 AM
Jun 2022

In Italy, You pay a national income tax, plus a regional tax of up to 1.4%, and city tax of less than 1%.

After allowances have been taken into account, rates are on a sliding scale. They are currently as follows:

23% for amounts up to $36,000
33% for the next band from $36,001 to $39,300
39% for amounts between $39,301 and $119,200
45% for amounts $119,201 and over.

That’s after deductions for medical expenses, education, and a few other possible deductions.

Actually, when all is said and done, it is less than the same taxes /+ medical insurance and costs here for most.

kimbutgar

(23,254 posts)
9. In 2019 my sister was on a cruise with us in Europe
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:27 AM
Jun 2022

She ended up in the cruise hospital and the cruise disembarked in Rome. They wanted her to go to the hospital there but we decided to just get her home and het her doctor back home in California. The cruise people said it wouldn’t cost us money for her to get treatment in the hospital in Rome. The doctor at the port at the terminal who examined her kept saying don’t worry about medical bills we take care of people who have medical problems and it doesn’t cost them much. Even if you’re not a citizen of Italy.

Vogon_Glory

(9,568 posts)
10. But Millionaire Florida US Senator Rick Scott thinks Americans are spoiled
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:34 AM
Jun 2022

Chew on that when early voting starts this fall and you find yourself thinking about blowing off voting.

unc70

(6,325 posts)
11. I had a similar experience in Venice
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 10:43 AM
Jun 2022

In 2019, I was visiting Venice when I became weak and nearly passed out. Given my age, etc. I was taken to the ER. Lots of tests, several bags of fluids, and twelve hours later I was released. I had become very dehydrated after a stomach bug. Nothing near as severe as in the OP, but my total bill was just over fifty euros. Blood labs, EKG, meds, doctors and nurses, everything.

Oppaloopa

(896 posts)
12. Just had minor breast cancer surgery 90,000 in & out same day
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:00 AM
Jun 2022

Have a medicare advantage plan they paid 19,000. I was billed 2,ooo out of pocket expenses then they found a tumor behind my eye radiation and 2,000 bill again. Too high out of pockets expenses.

erronis

(16,825 posts)
13. One of my daughters gave birth in Germany - hospital and much more paid by the German gov't.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:04 AM
Jun 2022

I can't remember exactly what was covered post delivery but I think there was also a substantial amount of follow-up medical visits and household help.

Diamond_Dog

(34,612 posts)
21. Can you see that happening in the United States?
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:37 AM
Jun 2022

Republicans will loudly bemoan “welfare queens” having babies “for free”.

This is the absolute worst goddam developed country in which to be a new mom.

Volaris

(10,599 posts)
29. You mean the babies those same Republicans are going to force by law to be born?
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:56 AM
Jun 2022

Well, then how bout fuck that noise on their part. If a fetus is worthy of state power, then the baby it becomes can be worthy of State Financing.

Evolve Dammit

(18,603 posts)
47. Our system is really f'd up. I long for some single payer system, but its dead for now.
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 09:32 AM
Jun 2022

Obama gave up saying there were too many parts/entities? involved. He did say if we had it to do all over again that single payer would be the way to go. I like what Bernie and Liz wanted which is expand Medicare for all.

tavernier

(13,258 posts)
15. After flying to Paris a few years back
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:07 AM
Jun 2022

I developed a pain in my right calve that ached all night and wouldn’t let me sleep. When I called the hotel desk for information to see a doctor, they told me that they had a permanent doctor on staff and he would be up to see me.
He took my vitals and checked my leg and immediately sent me to the hospital where I spent the next 12 hours being checked over in a variety of ways, including an ultrasound.
When I was released with a script and directions to a pharmacy where I was also to buy special stockings, I stopped by the front desk to pay my bill. They looked at me with some confusion and said that the business offices were closed since it was the weekend but they had all my information and if they needed to reach me they would. That’s the last I ever heard from them.

Marthe48

(18,984 posts)
18. Hosted and mentored international students
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:30 AM
Jun 2022

Antibiotics were OTC in Brazil and Costa Rica, very cheap. A Japanese student had surgery on a nerve in her nose to alleviate sinus issues, was in the hospital for almost a month to recover, again very cheap. In America, who stays in the hospital more than 24 hrs? You have to be really messed up, or get the hell out. I had a freind who hurt herself in a European country, can't recall which one, but similar to this story.

We could be like that in the U.S. but some entity has turned care into a business.

azureblue

(2,289 posts)
19. Italian health care
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:31 AM
Jun 2022

In Europe (Italy) health care is a right and almost if not totally free. I have a friend who went to Italy for a visit. She stepped off curb wrong, her ankle collapsed and down she went. The locals rushed up, and they got her into a car and took her to the hospital. In the ER doors, a quick check up, then X ray, back to to ER room to wait. The doctor came in told her she had fractured her ankle and needed a cast. Immediately they put a cast on her, gave her some pain meds and told her to come back in a few weeks. She told me it was 2 hours from doors to cast. She was braced for a huge bill. but it was USD $32.00. For everything.

geardaddy

(25,341 posts)
20. When I lived in Taiwan
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:31 AM
Jun 2022

I had food poisoning/stomach bug a couple of times and was admitted to the hospital to get IV fluids. I don't remember how much I paid for the services, if anything. If it was anything, I'm sure it was minimal.

IronLionZion

(46,962 posts)
24. When Taiwan was evaluating systems around the world for which to adopt
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:46 AM
Jun 2022

they decided that America's Medicare was the one to implement in their country.

LudwigPastorius

(10,782 posts)
40. A friend's wife has dual citizenship.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:35 PM
Jun 2022

It is cheaper for them to fly to Taiwan for her medical treatments for endometriosis than it is to stay here and meet deductibles, co-pays, and cost sharing.

IronLionZion

(46,962 posts)
22. The US rations care by cost
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:45 AM
Jun 2022

When Americans brag about getting specialized surgeries with no wait, it's because many other patients can't afford it.

CaptainTruth

(7,210 posts)
23. "Uninsured" is misleading. So is "he had no form of insurance."
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:45 AM
Jun 2022

The article says he was an Italian national so he's covered by the Italian national healthcare system, that's his "insurance" & it covers almost everything with just a small copay or "ticket" as Italians call it. If someone has a chronic condition, like diabetes, they don't have any copay for any care related to the condition.

My wife is an Italian citizen so I know exactly how their system works.

And yes, they pay much higher taxes to pay for all of it, healthcare is not "free."

erronis

(16,825 posts)
30. I agree. This shouldn't be anything to do with "insurance". It should be a right provided by the gov
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:56 AM
Jun 2022

Keep the damned insurance companies out of it.

They're worming their way into taking over Medicare via their "Advantage" plans. Looks good on the surface - just don't get really sick!

LittleGirl

(8,433 posts)
28. I live in
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:54 AM
Jun 2022

Switzerland and had a lumpectomy in January. Two nights in the hospital plus surgery and total bill not covered by insurance was 800 dollars because I asked for a single room. I can’t take opioids so they gave me a spinal block. From mammogram to ultrasound to biopsy to MRI to surgery was less than a month. The delay was because of the Xmas holiday. I was told cancerous on December 30th and surgery was on the 12th of January.

onecaliberal

(35,787 posts)
31. I have supposedly great insurance.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 11:58 AM
Jun 2022

When my husband had a massive stroke 5 years ago, we left the hospital with a 200,000+ bill in out of network costs. This is WITH insurance. What is the whole point of insurance to begin with if this is allowed to happen?


Ziggysmom

(3,569 posts)
32. In 2022 the Medicare Maximum Out of Pocket is $7550. Who the F has that much to spend yearly
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:11 PM
Jun 2022

for health care after retirement? Sure, many Advantage plans have a lower MOOP, but FFS!! And part D drugs DONT COUNT TOWARDS YOUR MOOP!

RIDICULOUS!

Martin68

(24,597 posts)
34. I had the same experience in Canada. Why can't we do this? Well, we could if the GOP didn't block
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:20 PM
Jun 2022

every humanistic law.

LudwigPastorius

(10,782 posts)
38. My mom had a hemorrhagic stroke a few months ago.
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:31 PM
Jun 2022

Ambulance, ER, 6 1/2 days in the hospital, then a couple of weeks in a rehab hospital.

They billed Medicare almost a quarter of a million dollars.

MontanaMama

(24,013 posts)
39. I've had to refinance my house twice
Wed Jun 22, 2022, 12:32 PM
Jun 2022

over the years to pay medical expenses...AND, we have insurance. We're self employed thus insurance is insanely expensive. I pay $1955 per month for our little family of 3. We've got a $4400 per person deductible to boot. It's the the only policy I can get in MT because there is zero competition. I would give about anything for reasonably priced insurance and/or universal health care.

Unwind Your Mind

(2,143 posts)
46. I'm self employed too
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 09:29 AM
Jun 2022

I don’t pay as much as you do but, just for me the premium is almost as much as I pay in federal tax every year.

Imagine the economic stimulus if we all were able to have medical that was truly affordable.

It would be huge

jonstl08

(412 posts)
51. Perfect example
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 11:07 AM
Jun 2022

Perfect example of why this country needs to get off their rears and do universal healthcare. I think we are the only country in the world who have people going bankrupt due to medical debt. People say I do not want to pay taxes for other peoples healthcare. What do they think insurance premiums are. You are paying premiums (in essence a tax on income) to pay for your and other people's healthcare. They cannot see that because they have been lied to by the insurance companies and politicians for years.

MontanaMama

(24,013 posts)
52. THIS.
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 12:23 PM
Jun 2022

And I would add that insurance corporations are in business to make money. Their sole responsibility is to their shareholders. People sometimes forget that.

mn9driver

(4,575 posts)
42. Congress and the Supreme Court will continue to do their sworn duty.
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 07:38 AM
Jun 2022

And protect the US health insurance industry from all threats, foreign and domestic.

Fuckers.

jonstl08

(412 posts)
43. 2016 in London
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 08:25 AM
Jun 2022

In 2016 took my sister and 2 nieces to London. On our last full day there my 15 yr old niece was doubling up in pain around her abdomen area but lower. Took her to the emergency room at the London national hospital near Parliament. We had insurance but was wondering if it covered over there. Turns out it was an infection in her private area. In and out of the hospital with medicine in under 2 hours. Asked about cost because they did not take any insurance information down and then said no cost to us. To say we were shocked is understated.

Tell people back here and they do not believe it.

 

The Jungle 1

(4,552 posts)
45. Our problem is healthcare insurance companies.
Thu Jun 23, 2022, 08:52 AM
Jun 2022

We have a stupid healthcare insurance system. It is a scam. They take our money and then argue about paying for the healthcare we need. The stinking healthcare insurance companies keep 30 cents of every healthcare dollar. They provide nothing "value added" to healthcare. Nothing, they provide nothing. They just steal our money. Your doctor does not determine your healthcare the insurance company does.
Repukes have been promising for 30 years that they have a plan to fix healthcare. That plan never gets put on the table. It is a lie.

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