Musicians
Related: About this forumThe Night they Drove Ol' Dixie Down (is it ok to still like this, what about play it?)
I hate all things CSA or even slightly evocative of white southern nationalism. But this is a beautiful song (and I actually was introduced to it by the Joan Baez cover.) I don't think it is intended to be pro-confederate, but could be interpreted as such by racists or anti-racist (like myself).
Thoughts, DU musicians?
Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)At least that's how I interpret it and that's pretty much the history of the songwriting between Levon Helm and Robbie Robertson.
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)It's like taking issue with Mark Twain creating a character called N***** Jim.
You do it well enough, as The Band did here ... I say fuck all that.
Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)hlthe2b
(106,359 posts)I find it a really evocative piece that allows one to understand the lingering feelings of the defeated in the South from the perspective of that Southern man (Helm) but appreciated by an outsider, Robertson. NO, I mean none of the "heritage excuses for the confederacy and in favor of racism" (as used to defend the confederate flag and all things related today) but genuine feelings of those vanquished wherever they might exist.
I love the piece and I adored Helm. He was the least racist and genuinely kind man (from all accounts) for a man of his time from Arkansas. The "Muddy Waters" and other black blues influences on The Band were genuinely a reflection of what Helm brought to the group.
This is the version of the song that most illustrates what I mean: (The Band, the Last Waltz)
I certainly won't deny that others who recorded it had nice versions, but if you want to understand the song, it is The Band version you want to listen to/watch.
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)I agree completely with your post. You're preaching to the choir lol
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)I love it!
I'm from Deep East Texas, Behind the Pine Curtain. I have such a love/hate relationship with my own culture!!
BigmanPigman
(52,259 posts)When I heard this song I decided to Google its meaning since it seemed like a pro-confederacy song. It turns out that Robbie Robertson, who is from Canada like the rest of the band except for Helm, and didn't understand the full history of the confederacy.
"The song has faced criticism for some historical liberties and inaccuracies, but its always worked with the listeners, most of whom probably dont know Civil War history any better than Robertson did, and who just view it as a good story song sung by a guy with a distinctive voice. The song found its greatest commercial success not through The Band, though, but through folksinger Joan Baez, who took the song to number three on the Billboard charts for her highest chart appearance ever. It included a lyric change, as Baez had misheard the original; where Helm sang By May 10th Richmond had fell, Baez sang I took the train to Richmond that fell. But her mis-hearing it gave Robertson a big hit as the writer, no matter what the words were."
https://americansongwriter.com/band-night-drove-old-dixie/
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)to my shame.
So what did Levon Helm say about it?
BigmanPigman
(52,259 posts)I have to close my windows when I hear this since it MUST be played at #11 and you can't help but sing along (also on #11, with my horrible voice). My neighbors are happy that I am considerate when I "rock it".
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)really good
Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)Helms exact reason for disliking Baezs version was never confirmed and can only be left up to speculation. Perhaps he took issue with the changed lyrics, the same ones that he helped Robertson perfect. Perhaps he didnt like that Baezs version was so popular, potentially overshadowing his original performance. Maybe Helm didnt actually mind Baezs version at all. All we know is that Helm had his own reasons for not performing The Night They Drove Old Dixie Down after The Last Waltz and took them to his grave when he passed away in 2012.
https://faroutmagazine.co.uk/how-joan-baez-ruined-a-classic-from-the-band-for-levon-helm/?amp
Hugh_Lebowski
(33,643 posts)Definitely worth watching the whole thing if you're a fan of rock and roll. It's WAY up there in the pantheon of great 'live concert/documentary movies', similar to the Woodstock film.
It's not Stop Making Sense, but nothing else is
Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)Helm disliked the Baez version so much that he stopped playing the song in response.
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)ironically, like I said in the OP, her version was how I discovered it (a Joan Baez greatest hits 8-track in the late 70s)
stopdiggin
(12,828 posts)Docreed2003
(17,805 posts)Particularly when it comes to how others treat what they view as their work.
Prince was notoriously quirky when it came to covers and I absolutely adore Chris Cornell's cover of "Nothing Compares to You"
Irish_Dem
(57,536 posts)Who had lost the war he was fighting.
He didn't have money, slaves, or a plantation.
But felt defeated.
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)Irish_Dem
(57,536 posts)stopdiggin
(12,828 posts)(or anything remotely in that direction) - - so I'm going to go with it as anti-war paean. And just flat out great song writing and lyrics.
sorrow, aching loss, regret - - the senselessness that many struggle with in aftermath - -
"you can't raise the cane (Cain) back up when it's in the field .. "
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)dflprincess
(28,475 posts)I just tried to find it and could not & all I can remember is:
"The night they drove old Dickie down
and all the people were cheering
The night they drove old Dickie down
and all the press was jeering
They went Na-na-na-na"
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)spike jones
(1,777 posts)but usually skip over it when I play them, and say Fuck Dixie when I push the skip button. Sweet Home Alabama by Lynyrd Skynyrd is another one. The big confederate flag behind the band in their videos bothers me too, but then there is their Oakland 1977 concert doing Free Bird. How can you not watch that?
BTW CSA means Chicken Shit Assholes.
I was raised in Dixie.
prodigitalson
(2,884 posts)love it
ProfessorGAC
(69,888 posts)And, this is coming from someone who doesn't like the song. Not one thing about it catches my ear.