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Related: About this forumWe Never Thought We'd Live To See Gavin Newsom Turning San Quentin Into Norwegian-Style Prison
We Never Thought We'd Live To See Gavin Newsom Turning San Quentin Into Norwegian-Style Prison
Robyn Pennacchia
March 17, 2023 03:30 PM
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San Quentin is one of the most notorious prisons in the United States, once home to Charles Manson and due to the fact that California has not executed anyone since 2006 home to the largest death row in the nation. But California Governor Gavin Newsom has a different vision for it. The prison will soon close and reopen as a Norwegian-style rehabilitation center to prepare inmates leaving the prison system for life on the outside. Unlike the United States, Norway and other Scandinavian countries have humane prisons, where the punishment is understood to be the loss of their freedom, not that they are not allowed to leave and also required to be miserable in other ways as well. Rather, the focus is on preparing them for life and to be "good neighbors" once they leave prison. They have nice food, pleasant living arrangements in actual, regular houses, even and are not treated like human garbage.
. . . . .
As much as we can look at Norwegian prisons and see that they are more effective in terms of lowering recidivism, it's a hard pill for a lot of Americans to swallow, because we're so used to seeing prisons as this incredible, absolutely ruthless vengeance against people who have broken the laws of our nation and potentially hurt innocent people. We're also very committed to the idea that "criminal" is less a status than it is an orientation.There's also the idea that our criminals are a special kind of evil. Like "Oh, that might work for Scandinavia, where the worst thing anyone does is steal someone's else's snowshoes, but not in the United States!" Personally I think Anders Breivik is a pretty bad dude, but what do I know? While we can acknowledge that America has a tendency towards extreme violence, particularly gun violence, it's also worth noting that our prisons are a part of that violence. That people root for prison rape (though thankfully not as much anymore) with cutesy "don't drop the soap" jokes, that we are inured to what goes on in them, that we gripe about "Club Fed" not being horrible enough, that's all a kind of violence. If we don't want to be a society where people are a "special kind of evil," getting rid of state-sponsored violence is a pretty good start.
. . . . . .
An often overlooked factor in our decisions to run prisons the way we do is the effect on the people working as correctional officers inside the prison. Correctional officers have a suicide rate that is seven times the national average, they have PTSD rates as high as veterans who served in Iraq and Afghanistan. When you think about it, it's a horrible thing to do to people. We hear a lot of stories of serious prisoner abuse in the system by correctional officers, but I doubt most of them go into the work thinking "Oh boy, I'm gonna get to beat the shit out of some people and be horrible to them."
"Most of them, when they go in, they want to treat prisoners well," said Shane Bauer, an investigative reporter who spent several months undercover as a CO, "But then you have to face the fact that youre doing something that is not really within your normal realm of what it means to be a decent human being." And in a lot of areas, prison jobs are the best jobs available. There's a cruelty in that. I don't just hope that this experiment will go well I know that it will. Because it is based on methods that have actually been proven to work rather than methods that feel like they are supposed to work simply because they scratch an itch for vengeance.
https://www.wonkette.com/we-never-thought-we-d-live-to-see-gavin-newsom-turning-san-quentin-into-norwegian-style-prison
Faux pas
(15,368 posts)niyad
(119,939 posts)What we are doing now, is NOT working. Give this a good chance and see.
NBachers
(18,132 posts)niyad
(119,939 posts)Backseat Driver
(4,635 posts)convinced this works better while so many live in such distressing poverty, in abuse, with a lack of access to mental health care in the moment, persecution for admitting to being who they are? So when the criminally insane "get well" and a return to medicated on-going health, the court now accepts their mad sense of guilt and accountability, and are gifted with long-term lives in paid hotel-like prisons? What value of harm in the crime quaifies one to be held in this Norwegian prison accommodations of kindness? Youthfulness, life-time total # of points/charges? damage to individual(s)?, to a community? I don't think you can convince me that evil intent and action does not exist nor can be suitably rehabilitated back into society. Great, now criminals once released, have the freedom to live a life that is unpredictably worse than challenging and far more dangerous than that of a predictable catch-all of kindness!
Rather, the focus is on preparing them for life and to be "good neighbors" once they leave prison? And if or when they fail at that?
hippywife
(22,767 posts)We need to do this across the country, and it has to start somewhere. People are just being tossed into terrible inhumane conditions, where many die (or are killed by other inmates, as well as correction officers.) You can't just lock up people without any options. Additionally, there are way too many poor people taking plea bargains when they're innocent. It has to stop!
One of my favorite legal defenders and activists, Bryan Stephenson, covers it very well:
From the last MLK Day celebration (video set to start playing when he speaks, not the whole 4 hours of the day.):
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hippywife
(22,767 posts)they warehouse them.
niyad
(119,939 posts)The Mouth
(3,285 posts)Lots of my family in Jefferson CA.
niyad
(119,939 posts)for example. True or not, I do not know.