Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News Editorials & Other Articles General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

Zorro

(16,452 posts)
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 11:11 AM Nov 24

Solar power glut boosts California electric bills. Other states reap the benefits

California is making so much solar energy that large commercial operators are increasingly forced to stop production, raising questions about the state’s costly plan to shift entirely to carbon-free sources of electricity.

In the last 12 months, California’s solar farms have curtailed production of more than 3 million megawatt hours of solar energy, either on the orders of the state’s grid operator or because prices had plummeted because of the glut, according to an analysis of data by The Times.

That’s enough to power 518,000 California homes for a year, based on average electricity usage.

To avoid overloading the power grid, California sometimes must stop producing solar and wind power. So far in 2024, the state has curtailed generation by 3.2 million megawatt hours — enough to power more than half a million homes for a year.

The amount of curtailed solar power has more than doubled from 1.5 million megawatt hours in 2021, state records show, and is up eight times from levels in 2017.

https://www.latimes.com/environment/story/2024-11-24/california-has-so-much-solar-power-that-increasingly-it-goes-to-waste

An unintended consequence of excess solar power production is that the state sells the excess to neighboring states, which effectively lowers the cost of electricity to their customers. So California residents are actually subsidizing those lower rates to non-Californians.

8 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

Zorro

(16,452 posts)
2. From the article
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 11:20 AM
Nov 24

"The solar glut also means higher electricity bills for Californians, since they are effectively paying to generate the power but not using it.

California’s electric rates are roughly twice the nation’s average, with only Hawaii having higher rates. Rates at Southern California Edison and Pacific Gas & Electric increased by 51% over the last three years.

“Ratepayers aren’t getting the energy they’ve paid for,” said Ron Miller, an energy industry consultant in Denver. He calculates that the retail value of the solar energy thrown away in a year would be more than $1 billion."

California residents pay higher rates to allow utility companies to build alternative energy source systems, but the excess generated capacity isn't able to be used in-state -- so that excess capacity is sold at rates lower than the cost of generation, sometimes at a negative cost to energy brokers.

brush

(58,012 posts)
3. What a rip off of California rate payers. They stop producion so rate prices won't go down, or the authorities sell...
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 11:23 AM
Nov 24

the excess power to neighboring states, thus subsidizing their customers' lower rates.

Seems they need to increase their energy storage capacity by quite a lot instead of ripping off rate payers.

kirby

(4,491 posts)
5. What also sucks...
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 12:04 PM
Nov 24

Electricity flows to the nearest demand. So when your solar panels generate excess current not used by your own home, it flows to your neighbors house. However the power company only pays/credits you the wholesale rate, while the neighbors electric meters turns and the power company bills them the retail rate. They make a huge profit from that fact.

hunter

(39,044 posts)
6. It's a damned lie that solar and wind power cost less than fossil fuels or nuclear.
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 12:41 PM
Nov 24
Cost of electricity with nuclear:

Capital cost of nuclear power plant plus Maintenance costs.

Fuel and safe disposal costs are not a large part of the equation.

Cost of electricity with fossil fuels:

Capital cost of fossil fuel power plant plus Maintenance costs plus fuel costs.

Fossil fuel waste is simply dumped everywhere without account and will eventually destroy this world as we know it.

Cost of electricity with fossil fuels, wind, and solar:

Costs of fossil fuel power plants (including ALL environmental and Capital costs) plus Capital costs of wind and solar plants, including distribution, plus Maintenance costs of wind and solar minus the fossil fuel equivalent cost of wind and solar power produced when there is a demand for it.

Because the capacity factors of wind and solar are so poor, about 16% in the case of home solar, 25% in the case of large scale desert solar, and around 30% for wind, fossil fuel primary power will always be required. Adding batteries to these hybrid systems will only increase the cost of electricity further.

Wind and solar power cannot displace fossil fuels entirely, which is what we need to do.

Nuclear power is the only energy resource capable of displacing fossil fuels entirely, and it can do so for less cost and much smaller environmental impacts than hybrid solar / wind / battery / fossil fuel systems.

If we build nuclear power plants then we don't need wind or solar power, which brings great distress to solar and wind advocates who inevitably become tacit supporters of the filthy natural gas industry and environmentally destructive battery and hydroelectric storage schemes.

hunter

(39,044 posts)
8. "Dirty" compared to natural gas?
Sun Nov 24, 2024, 06:14 PM
Nov 24

Surely you must be joking.

The difference is that nuclear waste can be contained. Fossil fuel waste cannot, it's simply dumped everywhere. Some of that fossil fuel waste is radioactive, carcinogenic, etc., etc.. Natural gas accidents can destroy entire neighborhoods, flames spewing toxins everywhere. Worst of all, fossil fuel waste causes global warming.

Nuclear waste won't destroy the world as we know it. Fossil fuel waste will, and is doing so as I write this.

We've been very well trained to ignore the dangers of fossil fuels, most of all the very real threat of global warming.

Wind and solar promotion is climate change denial "light" (as in light beer) and will only prolong our dependency on fossil fuels, doing nothing in the long run to reduce the total amount of greenhouse gasses humans dump into earth's atmosphere.



Latest Discussions»Region Forums»California»Solar power glut boosts C...