Whether it's with LePage getting reelected or this.

What do you bet he's a Trump voter who rails against all those "takers on welfare and food stamps."

If you watch the video, I think you'll find that he's articulate and makes some good points.

But watching it, you can see how people like him are very vulnerable to the RW propaganda making the rounds. A young man, fairly intelligent, but stuck in a cycle of depression and mental illness brought on by a combination of bad economic circumstances and toxic masculinity norms. He is not adapting so he self-medicates, maybe gets arrested. And now he REALLY can't get a job.

They get angry, want to blame people. Not defending that, just saying I understand how they get there. I wish I understood how to get them back....

Better education and early mental health interventions would probably be of great help, but toxic masculinity says depression is weakness so don't ask for help (menists guys on the web ACTUALLY say this a great deal. Only cukes get depressed) and that you can't do 'girly' jobs like nursing, even though there is a demand for those. Temperamentally and culturally, not all are not suited to college. That leaves the military and police force, also not for everyone. I dunno... It's a hard problem, not the least of it is that they won't ask for help or tell people what is really bothering them.

Trump will use this as an excuse to cut benefits for people who really are disabled.

Then deport undocumented immigrants.

Then Tell the Jon Hunts of America to take the jobs left behind. So the people doing gardening, housekeeping, and under the table tax free day labor are going to look more like this dude.

And tax cuts for billionaires of course.

Disability can be a complex and controversial issue that most normal politicians won't touch. Trump is not normal and with his party controlling Congress and Supreme Court, these are not normal times.

You seem to think he's not "really disabled"?....Why?...I thought he made a lot of sense, actually.

and would not even consider it even when they qualify.

Disability for mental health issues or pain are a bit harder to adjudicate. I worked at Social Security. We got a massive increase in disability applications during the great recession. It's not a coincidence

There are people who need disability, but there are others who could move or alter their lifestyle expectations a bit and take whatever jobs are available. I've lived in places without furniture or TV. I've moved all across the US for short term contract work where I'm the only US citizen there.

We havent had some major outbreak of debilitating diseases crossing the nation. I agree with you; certainly there are people who need, desperately need, disability. But I deal with people every day who are on it and theres noting actually stopping them from working. Except getting the check
Let the blasts begin!

You say you deal with people every day who.are on disability and don't need it, but honestly, how many, and are you SURE they "don't need it"?.

There always be some who game the system, but I believe most do not -- By the way, the U S has the SMALLEST public benefit system in the developed world,so from a Big Picture standpoint, I wouldn't sorry about it, if you get my drift.

The reason I know about the folks I spoke of is because i have to deal with them regularly for my work. I know they're not disabled because they still work; they just work for cash. Construction, plumbing, etc. But they are very careful about getting caught.
When you mention the US having the smallest benefit system, I imagine that includes welfare? I'm not equating disability with welfare

Last edited Sat Apr 15, 2017, 04:58 PM - Edit history (1)

You sound like someone with little life experience and none on the margins,.as they say.

The fact is, one can be turned down for Welfare and Unemployment benefits for the smallest thing....So what should they do?...Starve on the pittance they can make working here and there under the table?

The social welfare benefits I'm speaking of include Welfare, Unemployment Insurance, Social Security Disability benefits -- all of it. We have the smallest, stingiest system in the developed world,.and our Republican leaders are working to make it smaller yet

dont know how you define living on the margins, but I've slept on a blow up bed for 2 years in someones living room in the past & also had a wife who became a drug addict and emptied what i had in the bank, sold our belongings and ran up credit charges all in a 10 day period while i was gone, leaving me with all the bills. I'd say thats a pretty marginal existence
I understand how people may try to get on it if they cant get a job. The problem is, once they get on it, they rarely ever come off

If you understand how people may get on it out of desperation, I don't think we're in disagreement, and no, I don't believe in scamming the system..People should continue to try and find work. That being said, the US isn't the easiest place to get back on your feet once you've been kicked down.

and, in any case, I'm not of the persuasion that taking public benefits is "shameful".. That's a Right Wing position, and I'm sorry to see how deeply it's spread to the mainstream. Turning down benefits when you qualify is merely stupid, in my view, not some point of "pride", as the wing nuts would have you believe.

I can see how mental health disability might be harder to adjudicate, but that doesn't mean the claims aren't valid.

Not sure what your point is about working where you are "the only US citizen"...Not being snarky, just don't understand.

I never see these stories about immigrants, ever. It's a different mindset and attitude.

It's fine if you don't understand. Some of us will do garbage work that Americans won't do before applying for benefits.

I know people who are blind, missing legs, arms, paralyzed from a stoke, etc. and still manage to find work or move to where they can find work. Others pursue a different strategy.

in your workplaces.

I understand the Right Wing mindset perfectly -- I just know it's a con that benefits no one but the Donor Class. who want the smallest,.cheapest

government they can buy ..So far, they're getting it -- The US has the smallest public benefits system in the entire developed world.

Some of us kick back.

White people can't handle the racial discrimination I've faced. Constantly being told you don't deserve to work with Americans in good stable jobs with benefits. You're not entitled to anything, not even to apply for such jobs. You don't get to interview and you're stupid for even asking about it. Learn your place and not be so uppity. Good stuff is for other people, not you. I've heard this my entire life. You probably heard something different in your life.

So when I see able bodied white males who don't look too disabled to me, not even apply for jobs. Don't move. Don't take advantage of community job training resources. Don't read books to self train. Don't really want it enough. And claim that they can't find jobs. It's too difficult. And they don't have the blatant discrimination I have.

Then maybe immigrants stealing jobs are not the problem.

To be absolutely clear, I'm ONLY talking about the ones with negative attitudes who are lying to themselves and to the claims administrators. This should not be encouraged. I have NO ISSUE at all with people who really are disabled and need benefits for the necessities of life. I'm still a liberal.

I'll admit I'm opportunistic. Even though I despise that orange racist troll in the white house and everything he stands for. You best believe that when that shithead won the election I started applying for jobs in fields that will do well when Republicans are in charge. Just like I worked in healthcare/benefits fields when Obama was in charge. I don't care what anyone thinks of me. I still want everyone to have universal single payer health care. If I don't get lynched or deported, then maybe I might like to see what's good with these tax cuts.

Life isnt fair for a lot of people. Theres never been any guarantee that it would be. One has to look at their situation and ask "OK, What do i have to do to get ahead?"
And thats what YOU are doing
Its like taxes; i know many folks who do very well. they bitch about taxes all the time. But one common denominator always sticks out. I hear them say "I wouldnt mind paying what i pay as much if everyone else was paying too"

some are not, and some are able at some points in their life, and not others....As for discrimination, I'm white, but female and that comes with discrimination...When I started out in the workforce, there were two sets of jobs listed in the newspapers: One.for Males, one.for Females...My niece, who may be around your age, was absolutely shocked to learn this, lol.

Look, here's the thing -- I DO admire your independent, ambitious attitude..and yes, everyone should try and help themselves. Generally speaking, it's the best situation all.around and I think most would prefer the sense of self-respect they get from it. That being said, I try not to be too judgemental...The job situation IS lousy and I'm pissed at the way that jobs have been shipped overseas, leaving LESS opportunity for those who may not want, or be able to, go to college.

Those white guys your seeing -- some may be scaming, but others may be mentally disabled with PTSD or something...Mental illness rarely "shows" like a physical impairment, but having suffered from severe depression in my younger life, I can assure you that it's real and filled with suffering. See, I'm probably older than you, Lion..My dad grew up poor,during the Great Depression -- Even though, he was granted a scholarship to a private school he had to quit high school in his first year to work in a factory to help support the family....Thing is, he had a factory to work at and it was unionized...He worked two jobs for most of his life, but he never begrudged those who were in need and he was a strong, liberal Democrat all of his life. . Back then, they hadn't started sending all the factories overseas yet in search of cheap labor...In those days, before "globalization" if an American country went abroad in search of cheap labor, the US taxed the hell out of their products when they tried to sell them back here, a situation I think was much more fair.

I do appreciate your explaining your situation more thoroughly...I doubt we're very "far apart" in our views, and I'm glad you shared your story.

I appreciate you explaining your situation too.

I get that mental health and even chronic pain (coal miners) is harder for someone to see. But they need treatment. My original post was that it looks like the GOP and Trump will use the scamming stories as an excuse to cut benefits for people who need it. Out of spite.

Disability is not for unemployment. It's for the disabled. Just like emergency rooms should be for emergencies only, not for people who can't afford insurance. Our military should be used for defense only, not for oil or profiteering or boosting poll numbers. and so on.

Arguing can get really exhausting.

Can I ask how old you are, Iron?...I'm in my sixties and, if I may say, have seen a lot of changes in this country..Knowing some one's age kind of gives me a view of "which" America" they were born into. I'm 67.

and have lived mostly in Appalachia and the Midwest and the DC area

You know, I went to your profile and I noticed you were born in Pennsylvania...Do you come from Philly, by any chance ' cause that's where I was born and raised....Did you, by any chance, grow up in Appalachia in a rural environment?..I was just wondering, because you mentioned that you'd faced a lot of racial discrimination growing up, and I was surprised that, given your age, when you were born, you would be facing the kind of blatant prejudice you spoke of...Then I thought, Well, if he grew up in Appalachia, that might explain it...Of course, I might be wrong...Like a lot of people, maybe mostly white people, I don't know, I was honestly shocked at the level of racism that came out around Obama's presidency -- I was hearing and seeing shit I thought died fifty years ago, seriously.

it wasn't hostile at the time. People just didn't know any better or have any nonwhite families so we were more a curiosity than a threat. Same with Indiana and Minnesota. I also spent about 4 years in Western NY.

No, my last 9 years in the DC/MD/VA area has been where I had the most open racial discrimination around jobs contracting with the federal government. Some people were trying to make America great again by defining who is a real American long before Trump came along.

Last edited Mon Apr 17, 2017, 06:02 AM - Edit history (1)

Glad to hear that you were at least able to grow up without facing all that bigotry. Sorry (and surprised) you had to contend with so much later . Sounds like you beat them in the end, though....Cheers ton you for it.

Some of the increased disability claims have to do with being (or feeling) pushed out of the workforce. It's one way of coping.

I listened to this NPR report when it first came out and really liked it. In case anyone is interested:

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives/episode/490/trends-with-benefits
here's a quote from the program synposis:

I've spent a lot of time up in ME and have relatives in Bangor. It wasn't uncommon for me to see people driving up and down the back roads on bicycles with bags and bags of cans they had collected for the deposit. Some of the houses in the back woods are no more than shacks by my standards. Who's business is it to judge how these people choose to live? If they aren't bothering anyone than I don't begrudge the life they've chosen.

Think about it. This person couldn't pass a drug test most retailers now require and he still manages. What are we pushing these people towards anyway? Drudgery of 40 hour work weeks? Nonstop consumerism that leaves people unfulfilled and groping for direction? Tell me something, if you're fully employed now and running the rat race, are you happy? I can almost bet Twitch has a higher happiness level than most of the people I know who have 20+ years of employment. (Personally, I think people who look down and disparage people like Twitch just want him to get a job and suffer like they do)

I agree that pushing people toward conventional ways of life isn't necessarily in their best interest, but you're glossing over realities in the article. First, Twitch sounds pretty miserable to me. He's not living on the marginalized edge out of any sense of principle, he's basically just given up on himself. Secondly, he's only managing this subsistence lifestyle by qualifying for disability, so he's not off doing his own thing on his own dime, he's drawing from the societal coffers. At the very least, it's cases like Twitch that give the Republicans fodder for cutting disability programs. People with low-levels of happiness and full employment tend to bristle at subsidizing men like Twitch, whose claim to disability is slightly dubious.

From my own perspective, given that men like Twitch and McLeod are not only unemployed but also pretty obviously unemployable in our current society and what it demands from workers, I'd rather fund them through disability than leave them to rot. Some people really just can't function in the modern job market and it's our national responsibility to care for them or to reform our country. Since the latter isn't going to happen, the former is the only humane alternative.

Good points. Most people work to live not live to work especially when the work is under-paying and not rewarding.

And yes, I've been to Maine and know people there, professionals and others.

you experienced huge numbers of rejections. This is hard for any young person to deal with, especially one with a mental issue, even a mild one. Employers have treated people very badly, making all kinds of promises, then dropping you with no notice.

No jobs to be had. Low paying jobs back breaking work. Injuries not reported so yes I can see getting disability. About 10 yrs ago my brother-in-law was having problems. They kept denying claims. SSI I really believe was hoping he would die before he would be able to collect. He had disability insurance they never paid. He died 6 months after finally being approved. He had already had heart attacks 40% of his heart was dead, he had survived testicular cancer, he had lung and liver cancer and all of them said he was just making it up nothing was wrong with him he just did not want to work.

to someone in my family. Seems like someone should be able to sue one or more parties for that.

The culture of poverty perpetuates across generations

It is not their 'choice', it is their accepted place and their proud rigidity
doesn't permit a lot of change. A form of Appalachia exists in many
rural parts of the US. These folks are not equipped to make decisions
larger than their lives, not about saving for retirement, health care, annuities,
warranties, or complex political issues.

Many employers care only about slots. They erect high barriers to entry,
strict skill and experience requirements. Not even well educated people pass
many of their criteria. The age of computers and robots requires a dull, methodical,
relentless workforce. It is no wonder so many people work for themselves and
refuse to contribute to this system. Work for yourself and learn to live on less.