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MichMan

(13,156 posts)
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 01:53 PM Oct 30

Chinese student to face criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will apparently count

A University of Michigan student who is from China and not a U.S. citizen allegedly voted early Sunday in Ann Arbor and is being charged with two crimes, six days before a pivotal presidential election.

The 19-year-old individual from China was legally present in the United States but not a citizen, which meant he couldn't legally cast a ballot, according to information from the Michigan Secretary of State's office. He registered to vote on Sunday, he signed a document identifying himself as a U.S. citizen and his ballot was entered into a tabulator, according to the Secretary of State's office.

Later, the UM student voter contacted the local clerk's office, asking if he could somehow get his ballot back, according to Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson's office.

It appears that the student's ballot might count in the upcoming election — although it was illegally cast — because there is no way for election officials to retrieve it once it's been put through a tabulator. The setup is meant to prevent ballots from being tracked back to an individual voter.


https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/30/chinese-university-of-michigan-college-student-voted-presidential-election-michigan-china-benson/75936701007/
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Chinese student to face criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will apparently count (Original Post) MichMan Oct 30 OP
What kind of idiocy didn't set this aside as provisional? bullimiami Oct 30 #1
How would they have even known? TwilightZone Oct 30 #6
Makes me wonder if they would have ever known if he hadn't asked to get it back ? MichMan Oct 30 #8
No they need to check citizenship when they register. bullimiami Oct 30 #21
So people don't have to prove citizenship to register to vote? Think. Again. Oct 30 #2
The point of registering is to prove your identity and eligibility to vote, not your citizenship. TwilightZone Oct 30 #9
But citizenship is one part of eligibility? Think. Again. Oct 30 #12
Yes, one must be a citizen to vote. TwilightZone Oct 30 #14
So if the purpose of registration is to prove eligibility... Think. Again. Oct 30 #15
Because it happens exceedingly rarely. TwilightZone Oct 30 #18
Then why do we register? Why not just vote without pre-registering to vote? Think. Again. Oct 30 #28
We definitely are in some states. drray23 Oct 30 #26
Proving citizenship can be a burden, time-consuming, costly JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 31 #29
I understand that, and agree, but then why do we pre-register? Think. Again. Oct 31 #31
... bullimiami Oct 30 #22
This anecdote will be used by Repugs to justify not certifying various states... RockRaven Oct 30 #3
Eh, no one would take them seriously. TwilightZone Oct 30 #11
That's why they are planting so many different instances in so many different places. Think. Again. Oct 30 #13
I doubt this was a plant. TwilightZone Oct 30 #16
Maybe not, but it sure will help the rightwing argue their challenges. Think. Again. Oct 30 #17
No, it won't. One fraudulent voter is irrelevant. TwilightZone Oct 30 #19
Which is why I mentioned the multiple efforts to plant stuff for challenges. Think. Again. Oct 30 #20
Ok my tin foil hat is calling me. Why does this feel like a stunt to prove a point? tulipsandroses Oct 30 #4
Doubt someone would risk years in jail for a stunt MichMan Oct 30 #7
Well there's that guy that stole the ballots and then claimed the machine made an error counting tulipsandroses Oct 30 #25
Don't forget about space aliens MichMan Oct 30 #27
Risking years in jail, and deportation after that. JustABozoOnThisBus Oct 31 #30
Wonder if they would have caught it had he not called them first? n/t MichMan Oct 30 #5
Sounds like they would not have. TwilightZone Oct 30 #10
If they aren't checking for citizenship, how can they prove how rare it really is? n/t MichMan Oct 30 #23
They do periodic reviews. TwilightZone Oct 30 #24

bullimiami

(13,989 posts)
1. What kind of idiocy didn't set this aside as provisional?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 01:59 PM
Oct 30

You need verified id to register to vote. Not just a checkbox.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
6. How would they have even known?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:24 PM
Oct 30

He registered to vote, which means he had to provide an ID. You don't have to be a citizen to get an ID.

He signed a document indicating that he was a citizen.

They don't check citizenship when you vote, so how would they have known to set it aside? It was only discovered when he tried to get the ballot back.

Think. Again.

(17,901 posts)
2. So people don't have to prove citizenship to register to vote?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:11 PM
Oct 30

Then what's the purpose of registering in the first place?

If we don't have to go through the process of proving we are eligible to vote by registering before we vote, why don't we just skip registering and just vote without a registration?

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
9. The point of registering is to prove your identity and eligibility to vote, not your citizenship.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:32 PM
Oct 30

In Michigan, you also have to sign a document that says you're a citizen. The student signed said form claiming he was a citizen, and he obviously isn't.

They probably don't check everyone because instances of fraud of this type are extraordinarily rare.

Think. Again.

(17,901 posts)
15. So if the purpose of registration is to prove eligibility...
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:10 PM
Oct 30

...then why aren't we proving citizenship during registration?

Without citizenship, there is no eligibility.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
18. Because it happens exceedingly rarely.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:14 PM
Oct 30

It would be a waste of time and resources to check citizenship status for every single voter because instances of this type of fraud are vanishingly rare.

When Michigan was debating adding the citizenship question to the voter registration process in 2012, the SoS reported that they had found exactly two cases, two people from Canada who had registered as citizens.

drray23

(7,962 posts)
26. We definitely are in some states.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:59 PM
Oct 30

In my state of Virginia I did have to present my naturalization certificate to register the first time.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,762 posts)
29. Proving citizenship can be a burden, time-consuming, costly
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 06:22 AM
Oct 31

Not all of us can quickly lay our hands on our passport or our birth certificate. This would be enough to discourage people from registering and voting. I think Repubs would gladly add this requirement.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
11. Eh, no one would take them seriously.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:02 PM
Oct 30

They whine even when there is no fraud, so one instance won't matter.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
16. I doubt this was a plant.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:11 PM
Oct 30

He's facing significant prison time, and one instance would prove nothing. As I noted before, instances of this type of fraud are extraordinarily rare, probably because the penalties can be quite severe.

The person is being charged with perjury — making a false statement on an affidavit for the purpose of securing voter registration — and being an unauthorized elector who attempted to vote. The latter allegation is a felony punishable by up to four years behind bars and a fine of up to $2,000, according to Michigan law. The standard penalty for perjury in Michigan is 15 years in prison, but it's unclear what it would be in this case involving lying on an application to vote.

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
19. No, it won't. One fraudulent voter is irrelevant.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:20 PM
Oct 30

So, because we're all worried what the GOP might do, we should make the voting process even more complicated, cumbersome, and time-coming for something that's a one-in-eight-million circumstance? That's ridiculous.

Maybe we should just stop giving a shit what the GOP might do.

Think. Again.

(17,901 posts)
20. Which is why I mentioned the multiple efforts to plant stuff for challenges.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 03:29 PM
Oct 30

Look, please don't be mad at me, I'm a Democratic voter, not a rightwing goper trying to screw with the election.

And yes, after what they already did on January 6 2021, I do give a shit about what the gop will be trying to do this time.

tulipsandroses

(6,211 posts)
4. Ok my tin foil hat is calling me. Why does this feel like a stunt to prove a point?
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:23 PM
Oct 30

Why do it in the first place? Then call attention to yourself?

MichMan

(13,156 posts)
7. Doubt someone would risk years in jail for a stunt
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:26 PM
Oct 30
The person is being charged with perjury — making a false statement on an affidavit for the purpose of securing voter registration — and being an unauthorized elector who attempted to vote. The latter allegation is a felony punishable by up to four years behind bars and a fine of up to $2,000, according to Michigan law. The standard penalty for perjury in Michigan is 15 years in prison, but it's unclear what it would be in this case involving lying on an application to vote.

tulipsandroses

(6,211 posts)
25. Well there's that guy that stole the ballots and then claimed the machine made an error counting
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 07:57 PM
Oct 30

I also remember talk a few years ago about Chinese spies infiltrating universities. Maybe I'm just paranoid about this stuff.

JustABozoOnThisBus

(23,762 posts)
30. Risking years in jail, and deportation after that.
Thu Oct 31, 2024, 06:28 AM
Oct 31

If nothing else, it's evidence that this person is not a spy. A spy would not be so stupid, right?

MichMan

(13,156 posts)
5. Wonder if they would have caught it had he not called them first? n/t
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:23 PM
Oct 30

Either way, the illegal vote still counts

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
10. Sounds like they would not have.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 02:33 PM
Oct 30

They probably don't check citizenship for everyone because instances of fraud of this type are extraordinarily rare, probably because the penalties can be severe.

MichMan

(13,156 posts)
23. If they aren't checking for citizenship, how can they prove how rare it really is? n/t
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:05 PM
Oct 30

Or do they typically check most everyone but decided not to check this individual? Ann Arbor is hardly East Podunk

TwilightZone

(28,833 posts)
24. They do periodic reviews.
Wed Oct 30, 2024, 06:20 PM
Oct 30

When they were debating adding the citizenship pledge to the process, the SoS noted that an initial review found two non-citizens registered to vote, a pair from Canada.

A review of around 60,000 found 45 non-citizens who'd voted. It was claimed that there could be as many as 4,000 non-citizens registered to vote in the entire state by proponents of adding the pledge, though the number who actually tried to vote would be a fraction of that.. Michigan has 8.4 million registered voters.

The pledge is pointless. Citizenship was already a requirement and is noted as a requirement in every state. Adding the pledge was just a GOP stunt and another excuse to baselessly claim that the process isn't secure.

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