Michigan
Related: About this forumChinese student to face criminal charges for voting in Michigan. Ballot will apparently count
The 19-year-old individual from China was legally present in the United States but not a citizen, which meant he couldn't legally cast a ballot, according to information from the Michigan Secretary of State's office. He registered to vote on Sunday, he signed a document identifying himself as a U.S. citizen and his ballot was entered into a tabulator, according to the Secretary of State's office.
Later, the UM student voter contacted the local clerk's office, asking if he could somehow get his ballot back, according to Secretary of State Jocelyn Benson's office.
It appears that the student's ballot might count in the upcoming election although it was illegally cast because there is no way for election officials to retrieve it once it's been put through a tabulator. The setup is meant to prevent ballots from being tracked back to an individual voter.
https://www.detroitnews.com/story/news/politics/elections/2024/10/30/chinese-university-of-michigan-college-student-voted-presidential-election-michigan-china-benson/75936701007/
bullimiami
(13,989 posts)You need verified id to register to vote. Not just a checkbox.
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)He registered to vote, which means he had to provide an ID. You don't have to be a citizen to get an ID.
He signed a document indicating that he was a citizen.
They don't check citizenship when you vote, so how would they have known to set it aside? It was only discovered when he tried to get the ballot back.
MichMan
(13,156 posts)bullimiami
(13,989 posts)Its not the honor system.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)Then what's the purpose of registering in the first place?
If we don't have to go through the process of proving we are eligible to vote by registering before we vote, why don't we just skip registering and just vote without a registration?
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)In Michigan, you also have to sign a document that says you're a citizen. The student signed said form claiming he was a citizen, and he obviously isn't.
They probably don't check everyone because instances of fraud of this type are extraordinarily rare.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)...then why aren't we proving citizenship during registration?
Without citizenship, there is no eligibility.
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)It would be a waste of time and resources to check citizenship status for every single voter because instances of this type of fraud are vanishingly rare.
When Michigan was debating adding the citizenship question to the voter registration process in 2012, the SoS reported that they had found exactly two cases, two people from Canada who had registered as citizens.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)drray23
(7,962 posts)In my state of Virginia I did have to present my naturalization certificate to register the first time.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,762 posts)Not all of us can quickly lay our hands on our passport or our birth certificate. This would be enough to discourage people from registering and voting. I think Repubs would gladly add this requirement.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)bullimiami
(13,989 posts)RockRaven
(16,261 posts)TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)They whine even when there is no fraud, so one instance won't matter.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)He's facing significant prison time, and one instance would prove nothing. As I noted before, instances of this type of fraud are extraordinarily rare, probably because the penalties can be quite severe.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)So, because we're all worried what the GOP might do, we should make the voting process even more complicated, cumbersome, and time-coming for something that's a one-in-eight-million circumstance? That's ridiculous.
Maybe we should just stop giving a shit what the GOP might do.
Think. Again.
(17,901 posts)Look, please don't be mad at me, I'm a Democratic voter, not a rightwing goper trying to screw with the election.
And yes, after what they already did on January 6 2021, I do give a shit about what the gop will be trying to do this time.
tulipsandroses
(6,211 posts)Why do it in the first place? Then call attention to yourself?
MichMan
(13,156 posts)tulipsandroses
(6,211 posts)I also remember talk a few years ago about Chinese spies infiltrating universities. Maybe I'm just paranoid about this stuff.
MichMan
(13,156 posts)JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,762 posts)If nothing else, it's evidence that this person is not a spy. A spy would not be so stupid, right?
MichMan
(13,156 posts)Either way, the illegal vote still counts
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)They probably don't check citizenship for everyone because instances of fraud of this type are extraordinarily rare, probably because the penalties can be severe.
MichMan
(13,156 posts)Or do they typically check most everyone but decided not to check this individual? Ann Arbor is hardly East Podunk
TwilightZone
(28,833 posts)When they were debating adding the citizenship pledge to the process, the SoS noted that an initial review found two non-citizens registered to vote, a pair from Canada.
A review of around 60,000 found 45 non-citizens who'd voted. It was claimed that there could be as many as 4,000 non-citizens registered to vote in the entire state by proponents of adding the pledge, though the number who actually tried to vote would be a fraction of that.. Michigan has 8.4 million registered voters.
The pledge is pointless. Citizenship was already a requirement and is noted as a requirement in every state. Adding the pledge was just a GOP stunt and another excuse to baselessly claim that the process isn't secure.