It's not hard and much more enlightening.

you are NOT to believe it if it doesn't conform to the mainstream view.

We are so accustomed to the potential of being denigrated as a "conspiracy theorist", that we often refuse to believe our own senses, our own common sense.

Common sense is the argument people use when they don't have a good argument.

our democracy may be broken beyond repair, if we don't fix this shit...

such a heavily Dem county going for Burr. Yes, it's a small county--about 11-12,000 votes--but lots of small counties in NC. Juggle a few and you change results.

http://er.ncsbe.gov/?election_dt=11/08/2016&county_id=58&office=FED&contest=0

Those vote totals are completely in line with the demographics and similar to results in 2012. Old white people in the South are often register Dem, but haven't voted for one since Jesse Helms left the party.

He got more votes than Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton! lol

If they were going to steal it, wouldn't they take the House seat too?

Almost all Dem candidates for governor win Martin County.

Hillary Clinton lost legit.

The county is rural, poor and about 50/50 white and black. In rural parts of the South, many older whites are registered Dems, but haven't voted for an actual Democrat since Reagan. This kind of split between party affiliation and actual vote totals are not uncommon. Also, in NC, Dems generally vote early. You live here, right? Then you should know this too. This pattern is even more pronounced in the black community.

Without knowing much about the specific county, I can tell you that the vote totals are completely within the realm of possibility, especially considering that Trump turned out his white rural base huge in places like this. This is WHY he won. He got poor whites out who generally don't vote.

Speculating about voter fraud and stolen elections without proof undermines the entire system when we do it too. There is so much obvious, provable voter suppression from the GOP in NC that ABSOLUTELY steals votes and flips elections. Why are making tinfoil hat speculations that can be easily put to rest with a simple Google search?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Martin_County,_North_Carolina

Last edited Fri May 5, 2017, 07:20 PM - Edit history (3)

Please, talk down to me some more about my 'tinfoil hat speculations'- I have lived in North Carolina long enough to know the NCGOP is capable of any and everything under the sun- I do not trust them as far as I can throw them. Dallas Woodhouse and company are carrying the tradition of past spinsters who worked for Jesse Helms. Republicans here will do ANYTHING to retain their power.

I posted these tweets for a discussion- The user who did this research has a Twitter page dedicated to voter irregularities and fraud- I'm just passing along the tweets to others on here.

If you searched Google then you came across Martin County's 2012 POTUS election results, right?






So you're going to tell me that Walter Dalton is more popular than Roy Cooper in this eastern NC county? Cooper grew up in the Nashville/Rocky Mount area and has a very big following in Eastern NC- Dalton grew up in the western part of the state in a town called Rutherfordton, NC.

Oh, did you see the results for Obama/Biden? They won the county by 5% points over Romney- You'd think those old white voters would have come out in droves to oppose a black man on the ticket.

Now let's look at the 2016 results against Pat McCrory vs Roy Cooper:



Roy Cooper lost the county to one of the most unpopular governors in the history of our state! Yeah, I DO NOT buy these Martin County election results- But you and the rest of your Dem friends in NC can pretend the NCGOP isn't capable of stealing an election!


Not that this picture matters, but Roy Cooper ran unopposed as NC AG in 2012 and got over 9,000 votes in Martin County:



These screenshots were taken from the NC Board of Elections site:

http://www.ncsbe.gov/ncsbe/

Yes, Dalton could easily be more popular than McCrory. Dalton served for years in the legislature and was a good country boy from Rutherfordton. These people all voted for Easley and that crew too. NC is historically not a straight ticket state. Party affiliation only came to be important since Obama won our EVs and all the white people who don't live in Charlotte or the Triangle flipped out and fucking Kochs spent 10's of millions fucking us over and turning us against each other.

It's a rural 50/50 black/white county. That means it is basically a swing district. People earn around 15k per capita. That is all you really need to know to understand that their vote tallies in 2016 were completely inside the margin of error.

And besides the NAACP, Democracy NC or any of the other excellent voting rights groups active in the state would have damn well said something if there was even a WHISPER of a chance that what you posted were true. Trust me. They are on it.

On the other hand, this unhack the vote "Mike Farb" guy doesn't seem to exist. The website is a recent wordpress with no identifying information about who runs it or funds it. Mike Farbs show up on Google search, but none associated with the organization. I could search the web domain registration info to see if it is one of them, but boring and it is probably a private registration anyway.

Dallas Woodhouse is crazier than a shit house rat. He can talk trash, but is not capable of the sustained mental focus that hacking voting machines would take. He would get drunk, forget and go on a 1 AM Twitter rant. And besides, the NC GOP is VERY successful at stealing elections 'legally' with gerrymandering and voter suppression work. Why would they do something this risky, even if they were capable. Dude, they are not that bright. They get help from the national party and Kochs to draw their districts and write their nasty legislation, but on a day-to-day basis, they are not capable of what you are speculating.

And there IS NO PROOF. This is a really serious allegation. There needs to be proof, just like THEY need to prove it when they allege voter fraud. Without proof, these types of allegation just degrade the public trust in democracy, which is the GOAL of the GOP, etc. Why are you playing along?

"So you're going to tell me that Walter Dalton is more popular than Roy Cooper in this eastern NC county?"

Dalton didn't run against Cooper. WTF does this even mean?

"Oh, did you see the results for Obama/Biden? They won the county by 5% points over Romney- You'd think those old white voters would have come out in droves to oppose a black man on the ticket."

Probably not. The district votes resoundingly for House Rep Butterfield who is black. Let me reiterate, the district is half black. Obama probably only got a small percentage of whites. Butterfield gets more. All politics is local....

"Roy Cooper lost the county to one of the most unpopular governors in the history of our state!"

In an unusually partisan Trump wave year. Most of McCrory's loss in GOP voters came from the Charlotte area, if I understand correctly. HB2 and an unpopular toll road.


None of the statistics you post points to fraud.

“Yes, Dalton could easily be more popular than McCrory. Dalton served for years in the legislature and was a good country boy from Rutherfordton. These people all voted for Easley and that crew too. NC is historically not a straight ticket state. Party affiliation only came to be important since Obama won our EVs and all the white people who don't live in Charlotte or the Triangle flipped out and fucking Kochs spent 10's of millions fucking us over and turning us against each other.”

I don’t buy it. Roy Cooper grew up in this area and I’d say he’s more popular than Dalton there.


“On the other hand, this unhack the vote "Mike Farb" guy doesn't seem to exist. The website is a recent wordpress with no identifying information about who runs it or funds it. Mike Farbs show up on Google search, but none associated with the organization. I could search the web domain registration info to see if it is one of them, but boring and it is probably a private registration anyway.”

You’re anonymous on DU. Does that mean you don’t exist? There are a lot of anon accounts on Twitter that have done a lot of good in spreading the word about various topics- You do know there are hacktivists out there who are affiliated with Anonymous and other groups who despise Trump and his policies.
Are you insinuating @MikeFarb is part of a propaganda campaign? You should tweet @ him if you want to know more about him. He replies to people on a daily basis.


“Dallas Woodhouse is crazier than a shit house rat. He can talk trash, but is not capable of the sustained mental focus that hacking voting machines would take. He would get drunk, forget and go on a 1 AM Twitter rant. And besides, the NC GOP is VERY successful at stealing elections 'legally' with gerrymandering and voter suppression work. Why would they do something this risky, even if they were capable. Dude, they are not that bright. They get help from the national party and Kochs to draw their districts and write their nasty legislation, but on a day-to-day basis, they are not capable of what you are speculating.”

Woodhouse is a stooge. But he is a ‘stooge’ who gets paid well by his masters. I think his right-wing Hunter Thompson shtick appeals to a lot of folks in the GOP.

Or McCrory. Your argument makes no sense.

I looked at the Farb Twitter feed. They are shitting bricks because there was over 100% turnout in some Wisconsin districts. They have same-day registration there! It is completely possible in same-day states to have +100 turnout if there are large numbers of unregistered voters who show up on election day (or early voting in NC). NC GOP shits bricks because some Wake districts were +100 (students who registered same day during the early vote), and I rip them for their willful ignorance too. What, are Dems going to get on the voter fraud train now too? Sheesh!

You cannot be serious about election protection and not know BASIC info like that. Not sure why that account is spreading misinformation, but it is. Anyone who does that is not a credible source. And yeah, I tweeted at them....

Gore, Kerry and Hillary Clinton were all robbed, but not the way you are implying. There are serious problems in our election system, but this is not it. Why not focus on stuff that is REAL. We have real problems.



Oh well, have fun with the conspiracy theories. But all the 'research' I see from that account is easily debunked by anyone with even basic knowledge on the topic. Imma check in with some of the real voter protection groups in our state to see if they know why an anonymous Twitter feed is spreading untruths about the final totals. I'll let you know if they have insight.

COOPER RAN AGAINST HB2 MCCRORY AND LOST!!! MY ARGUMENT MAKES PLENTY OF SENSE! Martin County always votes for Democratic candidates for governor. Roy Cooper losing to one of the most unpopular governors in the history of our state is a sign of something very fishy, imho.





Are you saying that it is impossible to hack an election machine?


Anyone who denies that voting machines aren't hackable aren't a credible source in my book! And it is entirely possible that this happened in North Carolina during the 2016 election.

You do not know what happens after the polls close- There could be precincts across the state of NC that leave their doors unlocked all night. AND YOU WOULDN'T KNOW ABOUT IT!


http://www.newsobserver.com/news/politics-government/election/article110199297.html



"What, are Dems going to get on the voter fraud train now too?"

DEMS HAVE BEEN TALKING ABOUT VOTER FRAUD SINCE the 2000 election! WTF!

How about the 2004 election?


Keith isn't credible- And the people in this video aren't credible b/c they're voting fraud crazies, right?

I'm not having any of that argument. It's dishonest and misleading.

Nothing about your argument is credible. I don't have to prove that someone didn't do something. You have to prove that they did.



I already showed that vote totals were totally in line with the demographics and past voting history of the district. You have no actual proof of tampering.

We are going in circles. I'm done here. I'll post again if I hear from the Twitter account making the claims or get more info from credible local voting rights groups. Have a nice day!

RWNJ trolls on Twitter would use that meme in the #ncpol section all of the time during the 2016 election.

Nothing in your posts were credible either- So I really don't care if you respond back to me. lol

Dry hump those demographics till you're blue in the face, it's not going to change my opinions about election hacking.

So you can stop with the troll talk. Also, your gif is nasty and probably alert worthy if I was inclined to that sort of thing. Wow.

being on Twitter- You are welcome to check #ncpol if you don't believe me. Try April-November 2016 in your search.

Right, I forgot longtime members of DU do not like when new users express their opinions- It's all about status for them. And if a person doesn't agree with them then they should be banned from the site for posting a GIF of a dog humping a pillow. Alert the CALVARY over a GIF of a dog humping a pillow- So disgusting. Wow.

But it's fine for you to insinuate I'm an ignorant 'tinfoil' conspiracy nut. LOL Gotcha.

Express your opinions all you want. Who said anything about banned, other than you? I called your idea tinfoil conspiracy, not you. You know that. If you disagree, you can debate the topic, but instead you derail and use personal attacks when it is clear you lost. It's like you have a LIST of logical fallacies and you are ticking them off in this discussion If people post logical fallacy ref as a reply to your tweets often, there might be a reason.

And yeah, posting a pic of a dog humping a pillow could be construed as uncivil. And you're not that new here. You have def been around long enough to know better. It's nasty.

the Corey Baker GoFundMe scam. At the time I thought it was strange users on DU would do such a thing, it took me a bit of time to trust anyone after those threads.

No, I didn't know you called my "idea" a "tinfoil conspiracy". But thanks for explaining. lol

When did I derail this debate with personal attacks? LOL Please cite those instances for me. Are you talking about the dog humping a pillow GIF? LOL The "dry humping" comment? LOL

You're saying I "lost" this argument- I'm saying I didn't. Guess we will have to agree to disagree. Nothing you said convinced me to change my opinion. You could drop all of the demographics on a big round table and I still wouldn't see what you see.

I believe you have this idea of people being truthful and honest during elections- Republican voters in North Carolina and across the country are cut from the same cloth. ALL OF THEM ARE EVIL SWINE! Yes, I'm talking about GOP poll workers, volunteers, etc... I'm kinda glad I don't live in the world that you live.

Now let's add hackable election machines into the mix and we have the world we live in today. Obviously we don't see things the same way. Which is fine. It's been almost 20 years since I took a college debate class- In those 20 years I haven't written much. For me it's no big deal because I don't do a lot of writing for my IT job. I see the grammar nazis and other English majors on here talking down to folks who aren't skillful at debates, or with the written word as them. Those folks have to realize these people talk a different way than them. I get called out by friends all of the time in texts b/c they think I'm being crude and abrasive, but it mostly sarcasm and smartassery. I'm not a proper person- never have been.


The GIF isn't disgusting to me and I wasn't taking a stab at being an uncivil DU user.

Humor is subjective- Some like Carrot Top- Others (like me) find laughter while watching dog's humping pillows. Trust me, I've seen far worse pics and GIFs posted on DU.

I really am "new" here- I did signed up in 2011, or 2010- last year was the first time I started posting in the discussion forums. Before I would just lurk and read stories. In those 5-6 years I was floating around the world with my ex-gf... I didn't have time to post on here. NOw I work from home and have A LOT more time to get lost in the political cess pool of the Trump administration.

Sorry someone was mean to you here about something I know nothing about.... I know the GOP is nefarious, but you still have to prove wrong doing. You didn't.

I asked the Twitter account in your OP to explain the misleading use of statistics and it blocked me I was totally polite too. Dude, English is not it's first language. It's ok. I know where it lives now, so I can still watch the website

Thanks for bringing this to my attention! It was actually helpful, in a weird way.

Is your Twitter account an egg with 4 followers? I tend to block those accounts, especially after last year's Russian-bot parade that hit my account with thousands of fake pages.

I also did a search of his replies earlier to see if you contacted him- And I didn't see anything during that search.

Also, much blocking going on, so not sure how that shakes out in a search. Sorry you were unable to successfully stalk me on Twitter, but why would I lie about something like that? If I was going to lie, it would be WAY more interesting than getting blocked by a fake activist.

I just thought it was funny. And I would have taken screen shots if I knew they were that sensitive. I swear I was being polite, particularly by Twitter standards. Speaking of which, if they were a real account, why don't they have a blue check? If they are really some big shot vote hacking expert, why are they posting anonymously? That doesn't make sense.

Twitter page.

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Mensch is nutty. She might be right about some things, but I don't have the patience to figure it out. I had to unfollow her. I dunno who that other guy is. Please don't tell me. Boring.....

You were the one searching for my post on Twitter

Yeah, it's all boring. Did Mensch block you? She told me in a reply about blocking questionable profiles a few months ago- Of course you're going to slam all of them for being 'nutty' and 'boring'. I can tell you're one of those people.

One day you will open your mind with a hit of LSD and the world around you will not be filled with judgmental words flowing from your keyboard. Good luck, I'm done talking with you now because your an unverified DU user who doesn't have a check beside his/her name.

That is a new one, even for DU. Shit. And I thought I and seen it all.

presidential election. I really don't get all these people saying that what you are talking about is unlikely.

We know who we are dealing with. How can people think they won't mess with the votes wherever they are able? And who is so dopey as to think that elections can't be hacked?

It's like watching people hit themselves in the head with a hammer, over and over and over and over.

When the incontrovertible proof of this comes out, they'll all be saying, "Wow! Who'da thunk it!"

I shot a blue teapot into orbit and it is circling the earth as we type. Prove that I didn't.

Trolls and bots DID effect the election, as did voter suppression laws. There is no proof of what the OP alleges. The statistics are not even suspicious if you take a minute to check. Look at the demographics of the district and the totals in 2012, and the results in 2016 are totally in line.

If there is proof, then SHOW me and I am on it. But an anonymous Twitter source that is manipulating statistics to fit a narrative pings my BS meter pretty loudly. We have REAL problems with stolen elections in NC. But what the OP alleges in not one of them. So why is the Twitter account trying to distract with this?

and tell them they're wearing tinfoil hats.

And then look at what the Russians DID do in the US (and France, and England and Germany) and tell me that election hacking is not a really a possibility because you don't like how someone is describing the possibility.

Enjoy! And then we'll talk again when the inevitable happens and surprises the shit out of you.

We still haven't addressed the things we know they actually did. We have PROOF. We don't have proof of this other accusation. That statistics used as 'proof' are misleading and used that way on purpose. Why?

Want to fight GOP voter suppression? Join me! It's my main thing. If you have real proof of vote hacking, show me and I am all over it. But I don't see any proof at all. That's all I'm saying. Bunky.

current climate, I am very appreciative when those things are noted. Because I don't know about you but I have no doubt that they are trying to hack the machines. I don't have a smoking gun to say they have succeeded. But if they haven't succeeded already, given what else they've been doing, I'd be really surprised.

About that GOP voter suppression: does fighting that mean we aren't able to look at all the weird shit that is happening in our elections and ask, "Wow, what's going on there?" I personally feel we can and should do both.

you can see that the 'oddities' really are not odd at all. And anyone who knows much about those types of stats knows they are not odd. We have great voter protection groups in NC. Reverend Barber heads NAACP. It's probably the most influential voting rights groups in the country. Democracy NC has been tracking this type of thing for over a decade. I keep up with all the local political reporters too. NC Policy Watch. Never a whisper of this type of fraud claimed in the OP. You think Rev. Barber would let that kind of thing pass in his own state? Not a chance.

We do know that the NC GOP is viciously suppressing voters through gerrymandering and regressive legislation. We know they are running a propaganda game to convince people there is voter fraud so they can 'fix' it. They have begun a program to suppress protest now that citizens are finally paying attention and speaking out. We KNOW this is how they are stealing democracy in our state. We can prove it with facts. But we haven't beaten it yet. So why does this unverified account throw around a bunch of misleading stats when we have real, verified problems in this state that we do need to address? What are they trying to distract from?

have seen these tweets? They were published four days ago.

Did you talk with all of them about this Twitter thread?

It's a pretty big deal if it was true. But only an anonymous account on Twitter who in not actually from NC figured it out!!1!!1!

The benefit of doing actual work in the real world on these issue. I got connections. And I WILL ask them.

interference. There is no reason to suspect that anyone is tampering with our voting machines or changing vote totals. Diebold is our friend. Anyone who says differently is a conspiracy monger.

Except none of that is true.

We went to mail ballots as a result.