Canada

applegrove

(123,135 posts) Wed Dec 20, 2017, 10:52 PM Dec 2017

More poverty means more crime. Alberta proves it.

https://www.ctvnews.ca/mobile/canada/alberta-saw-huge-spike-in-crime-last-year-statistics-canada-1.2994380

"SNIP.......

Researchers at Statistics Canada say this jump could stem from an increase in break-and-enters, thefts under $5,000 and motor vehicle thefts across Alberta.

But Edmonton’s top cop has a different theory. As Alberta’s energy-dependent economy continues to suffer from falling oil prices, Edmonton’s police chief drew a direct link between the sputtering oil industry and rising crime.

“Our rates are all driven by property crime, and they are significant,” Edmonton Police Chief Rod Knecht told CTV Edmonton on Wednesday.

“And I talked about it 18 months ago when we said there seems to be a correlation between the drop in the price in oil and the increase in crime in Edmonton.

.......SNIP"

Look out America. More inequality means more crime. Windfall going to only people who work for AT&T or own stocks. GOP wants none of it to go to the poor.

18 replies

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More poverty means more crime. Alberta proves it. (Original Post) applegrove Dec 2017 OP

The GOP here will see it as a good time to invest in more jails and deals with judges to send RKP5637 Dec 2017 #1

And the GOP will point at the crimes and say "look at them, they are just applegrove Dec 2017 #2

'Are there no prisons?.. And workhouses?.. Decrease surplus population..' appalachiablue Dec 2017 #3

Actually a lot of unemployed Albertans go home to other provinces during oil applegrove Dec 2017 #4

In that case they're quite fortunate, glad to know it. Thanks. We could appalachiablue Dec 2017 #5

Yes. We are lucky to have a mixed economy as a country. And people applegrove Dec 2017 #6

You enjoy a very sensible economy, responsible govt. and banks, healthy safety net appalachiablue Dec 2017 #7

Well we learnt about the strength of the middle class from you. And you had applegrove Dec 2017 #8

Oil prices were weak in the mid-to-late 1990s True Dough Dec 2017 #9

Don't know. I know there was massive migration at that time too. But much applegrove Dec 2017 #10

Still trying to confirm the dates of that oil bust in the mid to late 90s applegrove Dec 2017 #11

Looks like crime went down a bit in 1998-1999 in alberta. But it was going applegrove Dec 2017 #12

1998 was the lowest point True Dough Dec 2017 #13

Like i said it wasn't so much oil sands at the time. People had other places to go applegrove Dec 2017 #14

I'm starting to think the police chief True Dough Dec 2017 #15

Nelson BC has the highest marijuana use and lowest relative crime rate in the country. If you are applegrove Dec 2017 #16

Exactly. On the one hand True Dough Dec 2017 #17

People worry about change that will affect them. Hopefully the badass applegrove Dec 2017 #18

RKP5637

(67,112 posts)

1. The GOP here will see it as a good time to invest in more jails and deals with judges to send

Reply to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 10:54 PM

Dec 2017

people to jail when not warranted. ... big money in more jails and crooked judges.

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

2. And the GOP will point at the crimes and say "look at them, they are just

Reply to RKP5637 (Reply #1)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:03 PM

Dec 2017

more dangerous..look at all the crimes they cause".

appalachiablue

(42,908 posts)

3. 'Are there no prisons?.. And workhouses?.. Decrease surplus population..'

Reply to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:20 PM

Dec 2017

Ebenezer:

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

4. Actually a lot of unemployed Albertans go home to other provinces during oil

Reply to appalachiablue (Reply #3)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:22 PM

Dec 2017

slumps. So poverty and crime are much less than they would be if people could not move to healthier economies where they were originally from and have extended families.

appalachiablue

(42,908 posts)

5. In that case they're quite fortunate, glad to know it. Thanks. We could

Reply to applegrove (Reply #4)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:27 PM

Dec 2017

use situations like that here, in many areas!

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

6. Yes. We are lucky to have a mixed economy as a country. And people

Reply to appalachiablue (Reply #5)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:29 PM

Dec 2017

who were making enough money that they could afford to move.

appalachiablue

(42,908 posts)

7. You enjoy a very sensible economy, responsible govt. and banks, healthy safety net

Reply to applegrove (Reply #6)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:37 PM

Dec 2017

and the no. 1 middle class as you know. I've been many places, but to Canada only briefly, Ontario from Detroit and Vancouver from Seattle. That was a blunder, but maybe I'll have another go. Cheers!

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

8. Well we learnt about the strength of the middle class from you. And you had

Reply to appalachiablue (Reply #7)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:40 PM

Dec 2017

some social programs before we did (like income taxes). I think you got lost. But we all do. Time to roll up your sleeves and get to work joining the middle class back together again.

True Dough

(20,287 posts)

9. Oil prices were weak in the mid-to-late 1990s

Reply to applegrove (Original post)

Wed Dec 20, 2017, 11:59 PM

Dec 2017

I wonder if there was a corresponding rise in Alberta crime rates at that time as well?

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

10. Don't know. I know there was massive migration at that time too. But much

Reply to True Dough (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 21, 2017, 12:02 AM

Dec 2017

less oil sands development and oil sands employment before. That would be interesting to find out.

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

11. Still trying to confirm the dates of that oil bust in the mid to late 90s

Reply to True Dough (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 21, 2017, 12:13 AM

Dec 2017

before I look up crime rates. Can't find it. What years exactly was there a bust. Do you remember. I don't.

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

12. Looks like crime went down a bit in 1998-1999 in alberta. But it was going

Reply to True Dough (Reply #9)

Thu Dec 21, 2017, 12:52 AM

Dec 2017

down everywhere in north america. Freakanomics said it was the advent of and access to abortion twenty or 30 years earlier that played a role.

True Dough

(20,287 posts)

13. 1998 was the lowest point

Reply to applegrove (Reply #12)

Thu Dec 21, 2017, 01:15 AM

Dec 2017

Oil sank to $18.17 per barrel during that year. Throughout much of the '90s it wasn't all that much stronger, in the mid-$20s to low-$30s.

Interesting that crime wasn't out of hand at that time.

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

14. Like i said it wasn't so much oil sands at the time. People had other places to go

Reply to True Dough (Reply #13)

Thu Dec 21, 2017, 01:37 AM

Dec 2017

to when recession hit alberta. Plus crime was dropping everywhere in north america.

True Dough

(20,287 posts)

15. I'm starting to think the police chief

Reply to applegrove (Original post)

Tue Dec 26, 2017, 05:43 PM

Dec 2017

has some strong views that may not be well-grounded, perhaps not borne out by evidence:

Legalizing marijuana will tie up police resources and risks clogging the court system, Edmonton police Chief Rod Knecht says in a blunt assessment of Canada’s plan to legalize the drug by next summer.

“I don’t think we’re going to be ready,” Knecht said during a year-end interview at Edmonton Police Service headquarters. “There’s a lot of work that’s got to be done in the next few months.”

Legalization is one of the biggest issues facing police services across the country next year. Police chiefs including Knecht have warned that the timelines are too tight and there are too many outstanding issues, including ambiguity around roadside tests for marijuana intoxication.

The federal government has left details such as where marijuana will be sold to the provinces. It also proposes stiff penalties for people who operate outside of the regulated system, including a proposed 14-year maximum sentence for selling cannabis to youth.

http://edmontonjournal.com/news/crime/marijuana-legalization-doesnt-mean-possession-charges-going-away-edmonton-police-chief

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

16. Nelson BC has the highest marijuana use and lowest relative crime rate in the country. If you are

Reply to True Dough (Reply #15)

Tue Dec 26, 2017, 05:46 PM

Dec 2017

high you are not doing crimes of aggression or anything that requires energy: like going to another location.

True Dough

(20,287 posts)

17. Exactly. On the one hand

Reply to applegrove (Reply #16)

Tue Dec 26, 2017, 05:58 PM

Dec 2017

there are going to be some major adjustments for police forces and, undoubtedly, some initial headaches. But what never seems to be mentioned by law enforcement is that they are no longer going to be wasting time and resources writing up and prosecuting charges for minor possession. There is definitely a trade-off here, but only one side is emphasized by the police.

applegrove

(123,135 posts)

18. People worry about change that will affect them. Hopefully the badass

Reply to True Dough (Reply #17)

Tue Dec 26, 2017, 06:02 PM

Dec 2017

kids will be high rather than going to clubs and then rumbling outside with other testosterone filled young males. If they are at the clubs high they will be looking for food once they close. And after eating they will be filled with satiation hormones and feel like sleeping.

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