United Kingdom

Denzil_DC

(7,941 posts) Sat Oct 7, 2017, 08:16 PM Oct 2017

Theresa May under pressure over 'secret advice' on halting Brexit

Theresa May is under pressure to publish secret legal advice that is believed to state that parliament could still stop Brexit before the end of March 2019 if MPs judge that a change of mind is in the national interest. The move comes as concern grows that exit talks with Brussels are heading for disaster.

...

Disquiet has been growing among pro-remain MPs, and within the legal profession and business community, about what is becoming known as the government’s “kamikaze” approach. Ministers insist that stopping Brexit is not an option, as the British people made their decision in last year’s referendum, and the article 50 process is now under way, however damaging the consequences might turn out to be when negotiations are concluded.

...

The prominent lawyer Jessica Simor QC, from Matrix chambers, has written to May asking her to release the legal advice under the Freedom of Information Act. Simor says she has been told by “two good sources” that the prime minister has been advised “that the article 50 notification can be withdrawn by the UK at any time before 29 March 2019 resulting in the UK remaining in the EU on its current favourable terms.

“Such advice would also accord with the view of Lord Kerr, who was involved in drafting article 50, of Jean-Claude Piris, former director general of the EU council’s legal service, and of Martin Selmayr, a lawyer and head of cabinet to the European commission president.” She says “there is no time to waste” and adds: “It is important that this advice is made available to the British public and their representatives in parliament as soon as possible.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/07/theresa-may-secret-advice-brexit-eu

14 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

Theresa May under pressure over 'secret advice' on halting Brexit (Original Post) Denzil_DC Oct 2017 OP

Just say the,Russians hacked th vote an d it's not valid joeybee12 Oct 2017 #1

What? Paper and pen? mwooldri Oct 2017 #4

While they may have contributed to the anti-EU propaganda machine... LeftishBrit Oct 2017 #6

Can we just delete all of 2016??? Bleacher Creature Oct 2017 #2

Amen JHan Oct 2017 #3

Excellent idea LeftishBrit Oct 2017 #7

I bet on early elections... syringis Oct 2017 #5

I agree, as long as the EU continue to negotiate hard, I think OnDoutside Oct 2017 #8

Hello Ondoutside syringis Oct 2017 #9

It certainly isn't in the EU's interest to soften their stance. They're OnDoutside Oct 2017 #10

I do think that too. syringis Oct 2017 #11

It has been brewing for decades. Part of that is the responsiblity of National politicians in saying OnDoutside Oct 2017 #12

Jessica Simor gives more details of the legal argument that Article 50 could be rescinded: Denzil_DC Oct 2017 #13

I did not read all (I'll do later) syringis Oct 2017 #14

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)

1. Just say the,Russians hacked th vote an d it's not valid

Reply to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Oct 7, 2017, 08:44 PM

Oct 2017

Odds are they did

mwooldri

(10,390 posts)

4. What? Paper and pen?

Reply to joeybee12 (Reply #1)

Sat Oct 7, 2017, 09:42 PM

Oct 2017

There isn't machine tabulation of UK elections. Paper and pen... And lots of council officials counting them.

Russians can't hack that.

LeftishBrit

(41,303 posts)

6. While they may have contributed to the anti-EU propaganda machine...

Reply to joeybee12 (Reply #1)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 02:49 AM

Oct 2017

they could not have hacked the actual vote. The UK uses paper ballots in elections. Long may it continue to do so.

What can be justifiably said is that no other democratic country, to my knowledge, would accept 52% of voters and 50% of constituent states/countries as a mandate for constitutional change. And Nigel Farage actually said before the referendum that a 52 to 48 vote to Remain would be 'unfinished business by a long way'. He really did use those very numbers!

Also the two groups most affected by the vote - British citizens who have lived for 15 years or more in other EU countries, and EU citizens living in the UK - were denied the vote in this referendum, even though Commonwealth citizens living in the UK did have a vote.

Bleacher Creature

(11,434 posts)

2. Can we just delete all of 2016???

Reply to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sat Oct 7, 2017, 08:52 PM

Oct 2017

Seriously, no more Trump, and no more Brexit. And for our trouble, we should ask for David Bowie and Prince back. Alan Rickman too.

JHan

(10,173 posts)

3. Amen

Reply to Bleacher Creature (Reply #2)

Sat Oct 7, 2017, 09:35 PM

Oct 2017

LeftishBrit

(41,303 posts)

7. Excellent idea

Reply to Bleacher Creature (Reply #2)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 02:49 AM

Oct 2017

syringis

(5,101 posts)

5. I bet on early elections...

Reply to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 01:30 AM

Oct 2017

...one more time .

Brexit or the imbecility brought to the level of an art !

Even a fully idiotic would have seen the nonsense of Brexit.

All we gained with this fool's game is a waste of money, time, a great stress and a haltone credibility.

As if we needed that !

PS : by "we", I mean Europeans in general, not only britons. As Belgian; my sweetest dream would be to stick pins, not in dolls, but directly in a tied Cameron, Farrage, Johnson or whoever involved in this mess...they all fit.

OnDoutside

(20,656 posts)

8. I agree, as long as the EU continue to negotiate hard, I think

Reply to syringis (Reply #5)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 03:00 AM

Oct 2017

a second vote has to happen. We in Ireland had to vote a second time in the past also.

syringis

(5,101 posts)

9. Hello Ondoutside

Reply to OnDoutside (Reply #8)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 03:07 AM

Oct 2017

I don't believe EU will soften its stance.

Which is good and even better if it helps to get over this absurdity.

OnDoutside

(20,656 posts)

10. It certainly isn't in the EU's interest to soften their stance. They're

Reply to syringis (Reply #9)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 03:11 AM

Oct 2017

Making all the right moves do far, it seems ?

syringis

(5,101 posts)

11. I do think that too.

Reply to OnDoutside (Reply #10)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 03:26 AM

Oct 2017

The current stance is in Eu's interest as well as GB's interest.

As far as I can remember, nothing have never enraged me as much as Brexit.

The dumbest move ever !

For britons, in case of new elections (high probability), it will be the 3rd major election in less than 3 years.

OnDoutside

(20,656 posts)

12. It has been brewing for decades. Part of that is the responsiblity of National politicians in saying

Reply to syringis (Reply #11)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 06:20 AM

Oct 2017

"Oh Europe made us do this !" and part is perceived unelected EU faceless technocrats pushing a United States of Europe when the people weren't ready. Even though the EU (and the ECB) badly screwed Ireland over in 2010 (the heroes in my eyes were the IMF), I am fully behind the concept of the EU, and I believe there would be a majority in the UK who would now vote to stay if they got the chance to vote again. It was a good news day that Labour turned on the Tories to support Remain again. That gives a fighting chance that a vote will happen, IF the Tories get a dreadful deal.

Denzil_DC

(7,941 posts)

13. Jessica Simor gives more details of the legal argument that Article 50 could be rescinded:

Reply to Denzil_DC (Original post)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 07:57 AM

Oct 2017

Why it’s not too late to step back from the Brexit brink

...

Article 50 provides for the notification – not of withdrawal but of an “intention” to withdraw. In law, an “intention” is not a binding commitment; it can be changed or withdrawn. Article 50(5) is, moreover, clear that it is only after a member state has left that it has to reapply to join. Had the drafters intended that once a notification had taken place, a member state would have to request readmission (or seek the consent of the other member states to stay), then article 50(5) would have referred not just to the position following withdrawal, but also following notification. Such an interpretation is in line with the object and purpose of article 50.

The EU’s competences are based on the consent of its member states. The authority to increase or reduce these competences is within their hands. Article 50 is an example of the principles of consent and conferral; it confirms the right of a member state to withdraw from the union. In the words of the German federal constitutional court in the Lisbon case, the “right to withdraw underlines the member states’ sovereignty… If a member state can withdraw based on a decision made on its own responsibility, the process of European integration is not irreversible”. The purpose of article 50 is therefore to confirm in express terms the member states’ ability to withdraw from the EU and to lay down the procedures for doing so. By confirming the right of states to withdraw from the EU treaties, article 50 maintains the right of states to change their mind on withdrawal, as provided for in article 68 of the Vienna convention on the law of treaties.

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2017/oct/07/why-its-not-too-late-to-step-back-from-brexit

syringis

(5,101 posts)

14. I did not read all (I'll do later)

Reply to Denzil_DC (Reply #13)

Sun Oct 8, 2017, 09:26 AM

Oct 2017

But I agree it is not too late to step back.

I safely say it as lawyer myself.

I have had great discussions about this point with my husband and my older son. They are lawyers too.

Reply to this discussion