I'm quite open to the idea that Putin, or perhaps some rogue cut-out acting on Russia's behalf, is behind this attack, but it seems an unduly unsubtle, provocative and indiscriminate method (which might bear out the argument in the OP) given the other ways they've used to exact revenge in the past.

Like many others, I'd like to see as much concrete evidence as possible before escalating the situation further - although they signed up to the EU leaders' joint statement, the French had been hanging back on that basis, for instance.

The added irony is the way the Tories have sucked up to and encouraged Russian oligarchs to tuck away their money in property etc. in London and been only too happy to meet with and take cash from them - which would become more difficult if the UK stayed in the EU beyond January 2019, when the new tax and anti-money laundering directives come into force (which might be an argument against the OP).

It does, though, as the article says, highlight who our main allies in the world are in times of crisis at the moment. How stupid to be seeking to distance ourselves from them, and turning to Trump's America, MAGA cap in hand, looking for trade deals and help.

how far he can go with his outrageous acts before being pulled up short. He's done a number of things that affect us that a US President ought to object to strenuously, but this one hasn't. He's trying to push the limits. The "unsubtle" is part of it, IMO -- thumbing his nose at the world.

Here's another theory about what happened, for instance: https://www.democraticunderground.com/100210365868

It's no more a conspiracy theory than what Chatham House are currently suggesting above without hard evidence.

Among doubters, there have been claims that there's no way to trace the origin of the Novichok. My understanding is that this isn't clear, because the isotope ratios of certain elements in it could be used to identify their geographical origin.

That in itself wouldn't clear up the mode of delivery (there have been a few official stories about that so far - doorknob, luggage etc.), culprits nor motivation, but it would be a step forward.

All I'm seeing is a bunch of political posturing and conjecture with a strong dash of appeal to authority - predictably, except from Trump, of course, who's away with the fairies anyway.

As for what I can only assume is your attempt at a silly insult with the "out in the poppies" thing, I'm pretty inured to all that crap having lived through the run-up to the Iraq War, both IRL and online - and my skepticism served me well at that time - so I respectfully suggest you save it for somebody who gives a damn.

We might - might - eventually find out what actually happened, and I wouldn't be surprised if the threads lead back to Putin in the end, but there are too many inexplicable loose ends at the moment to pass definitive judgement.

As for the thesis in the OP - at the moment, utterly predictably, Theresa May's standing has been improved, so if that was the plot, it's been a spectacular backfire, and it wouldn't have taken a genius to predict that would be the case.

I do think that Britain is seen as being a soft touch at present, and our current foreign policy of leaving the EU and kowtowing to President Fart is making that much worse.

Theresa May's reaction so far has been OK-ish (certainly better than Gavin Williamson's outburst), but she will need to go further with action against Russia. Also worth remembering that there is a lot of pro-Russian sympathy among Brexiteers. The reactions of President Fart and Jeremy Corbyn have both been very disappointing. Just two years in to the Brexit Age and the Conservatives have become UKIP, Labour have become InfoWars, and UK sovereignty has become Russian.

The one thing we have in our favour at the moment is NATO membership, which necessarily entails solidarity from our allies. Even at a time when we are deliberately wrecking the links that hold us together by leaving the EU.

it is / was so easy to trace this back to Putin

The timing is important too... as well as targeting the daughter.

This was a message aimed at Manafort. Keep your trap shut, do not take a plea and do not cooperate. Serve the rest of your life in prison and we will leave your family alone.

One that makes the attempts of many online Labour supporters to play partisan point scoring games and engage in conspiracy theories look so much worse in comparison.

http://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/russia-jeremy-corbyn_uk_5aa46df6e4b07047bec712d4

Last edited Sun Mar 18, 2018, 11:25 PM - Edit history (1)

You'll know well that I couldn't be classed as a Corbyn fan (and you should certainly know that I'm no Russia apologist), but this is the backdrop chosen for the BBC's flagship nightly news magazine earlier last week:



In response to widespread anger at what has been perceived as a blatant visual smear (and quite a sinister one at that) against the leader of the opposition simply for urging caution and waiting for evidence, the BBC's social media team has been on the defensive:

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

I know you think he's wonderful and you won't like me for saying it, but it stinks. No better than Farage or George Galloway.

As does the Tory links to Russian oligarchs. The Russian sleaze in UK politics runs deep on both left and right. As such, any attempt to crack down on Putin's antics will face considerable opposition.

Expecting a long winded, blustering and very angry reply in 3.......2........1......

have graced the RT airwaves in the past few years?

As for Salmond "toadying", I don't think you'll have seen any of his shows, not that I'm a fan.

The fact that a calm, reasoned post from me, for the second time in this thread, has elicited an insult, this time on the lines of predicting "a long winded, blustering and very angry reply", says everything about how quickly our political discourse degrades under stress and disinformation.

But that does not exempt the SNP from criticism when they do the exact same thing.

One thing that Corbynites are currently up in arms about is Corbyn being excluded from certain security briefings. To be brutally honest, I can understand why he wouldn't be trusted with such matters, given his history of being an apologist for the Russian regime. However, the same would also apply to a vast swathe of the Conservative party with dubious links to Russia. If politicians on all sides cannot be trusted with such matters then that is a matter of grave concern.