Wonder how much of a landslide it would be if all the voting software and other voter suppression was on the up and up.

...because Gore would have read the National Security memos and responded fully to them, and with continuity from the Clinton years.

Which means no Afghanistan War and for sure no Iraq War. And we would have had an environmental policy. A decent FEMA for Katrina.

The differences are staggering.

No 9/11, no Afghanistan War, no Iraq War, and a decent FEMA response to Hurricane Katrina. It's impossible to imagine what the world would be like now, but fairly safe to say it would be a lot better than it is now.

No 9/11 means no short term benefit to the GOP in alienating this constituency.

was the fact that Virginia, Nevada and Colorado were moving in Obama's direction and Ohio became moot.

Only, it will be in another county.

RandySF, how deeply do you think Virginia was involved in this scam? Thank God they didn't succeed!

Excellent book.

Info: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021536646

They were afraid to steal more and thought that would be enough but it wasn't. Sucks to be them.

The polls were 3, 4, even as much as 6 pts ahead for the President all week, and he only wins by 2% points?

All the other swing state polls were either right on the money or under-estimated Obama's lead. Ohio, I think, was the only state that Obama under-performed all the legit polls. It really looks probable, given Rove's bizarre behavior on election night,
that he had some dirty tricks cooking. How very sweet that, in the end, President Obama didn't need Ohio or Florida to win.

I love it when lying bullies get theirs

Last edited Thu Nov 8, 2012, 09:56 PM - Edit history (1)

I lost my taste for corpmediia "news" after the 2000 Coup. I would have freaking Freaked Out!

Thanks for the article by Mark Cripin Miller, robinlynne. May there be no more stolen elections..and I want to thank Bob Fitrakis, Mark, Clint Curtis, and all those who went to D.C. on Election Day.

Of course, Thanks Again to all our People who stood in Lines for Hours!

to vote. It is poor planning or intentional voter suppression.

and America got an education in it this year.

Never let the bastards get you down.

Please don't insult Lord Voldemort by comparing him to Karl Rove. It's not fair to he who must not be named to be compared to someone so evil...

It's perfectly believable-- but speculation nonetheless.

Mike Connell, GovTech, the 2004 Warren Country "homeland security emergency", and the progress of the King Lincoln Bronzeville v. Blackwell case (among so much more) makes it much more than that.

I'm not saying there is absolute concrete proof, but there's enough elephant dung around to make a pachyderm search quite a reasonable undertaking.

Official or unofficial. It's pretty funny how most Americans can accept (and even support!) the idea of our government rigging elections in places like Nicaragua or Venezuela, but think that sort of thing would be rejected out of hand as immoral inside of our own borders.

Though Venezuela uses electronic voting, it is OPEN SOURCE CODE programming--code that belongs to the PUBLIC and that anyone may review--and they do a whopping 55% audit (comparison of ballots to electronic totals)--more than five times the amount necessary to detect fraud in an electronic system.

Jimmy Carter recently said that Venezuela has the "best election system in the world."

Compare it to ours: ALL voting machines in the U.S. are run on 'TRADE SECRET' code--code that belongs to PRIVATE corporations, and the the public is FORBIDDEN to review. Half the states do NO AUDIT AT ALL (e-voting, no back up ballot) and the other half do only a miserably inadequate 1% audit.

This is WHY Venezuelans now have universal free medical care and "we" are still arguing about whether poor people should be kicked off the island--allowed to die in the gutter of illness and old age.

Anyway--though the election system here is even worse than I've described above (for instance, something like 70% of U.S. voting machines are controlled by ONE, private, FAR RIGHTWING-CONNECTED corporation (ES&S, which bought out Diebold), not to mention Citizens United and all the rest)--I just wanted to point out that the highly successful leftist democracy movement, of which Venezuela was a pioneer, is based on concrete, fundamental democratic principles and systems, beginning with HONEST, TRANSPARENT vote counting.

And we need to learn from this. They have horrible RW/corporate media, too--in some cases worse than ours--but have been able to elect strong leftist leaders in Brazil, Argentina, Bolivia, Ecuador, Uruguay, Nicaragua and other countries, in addition to Venezuela. How? Honest, transparent vote counting and the other critical component, grass roots organization.

"There was supposed to be an earth-shattering kaboom!"

Rove did seem a little too sure that the "math" would be revealing itself imminently.

If I were a conspiracy theorist (undecided on that) I would guess they thought they could clusterfuck the vote in Florida ala
2000, steal Ohio, and win CO or NH and VA straight up. When they lost VA and NH stealing Ohio became more dangerous to attempt than beneficial. The risk reward ratio wasn't worth it. Rove is not a moron like everybody is saying now he is an evil genius you can't blame him for not being able to polish a turd (you cant even blame him for trying, I'm sure he got paid) And of course the turn out and the change in the demographic of the electorate just made the math too out of reach to steal without suspicion. If they run a candidate that can pull 40 percent of the Latino vote like Bush did I think the math is there to steal another one. That's why campaign finance reform and voting law reforms are still crucial to us, in my opinion.

How could I forget to mention, it's hard to close the gender gap when your party is being forced to clarify its position on rape. But I think all this "Rove is dead" the "Republican Party is dead" talk is dangerous. Don't ever underestimate their ability to bounce back, or our ability to throw a shitty candidate (Kerry anyone?) I'm not calling them dead until I can stand over their grave and make sure of it. Not wise to get complacent.

the SoS website going down in 2004, and the fix made then. But, I'm kind of glad that they didn't/decided not to play that play again. How stupid do they think the populace is?

Just not by enough.

I think the President's margin there was actually more like 5%, not the 2-and-change % he officially won by.

We need to DUMP THESE MACHINES before the next election. We cannot be lulled into thinking the problem has been magically erased. IT HASN'T.

I actually think it started in PA. He needed PA, OH and Fl . Vote flipping on machines was caught in PA, it went viral and some might of chickened out there, or the overwhelming turnout made it useless. That was the beginning, the calling of PA for Obama was the start of this whole unraveling.
Their plan: flipping voting machines in PA, hacking in OH and their usually tampering in FL.
I don't know if it was large turnout or people lost their nerve. But I do believe this was their plan.

n/t

And Karl Rove revealed his own insignificance, frankly, live of Fox at that!
Occam's razor works a lot like statistics--just ask Nate Silver about probabilities....
His big bags of cash got him patrons nothing, he got his 10% or so no doubt.
He's laughing at how easy the money flowed in, which is what really drives this.