You obviously have no clue about the millions the ACA will help and the number of lives that will be improved.

The ACA will alleviate much of the fear families have about losing everything just because someone happens to need emergency surgery.

It's not perfect, and we all want a public option. But what we're getting until then is going to create positive change in the lives of so many.

To actively undermine the program is the height of selfishness. But you know that. You just don't care.

Instead of griping, why don't you join Enroll America in your state and help people get signed up? Many will get partial to fully subsidized coverage, which includes preventative care at no cost.

And thank you for providing an example of what I was ranting about.

Medicare for All would actually help Americans and our economy, and our President had an opportunity to GO TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE and rally them to the cause. He didn't. He didn't even try.

Don't bother arguing.

that. It's a strong foundation to build on.

This is posted in the Barack Obama Group and only those who do support the President and are into the reality of the Progress he's made are welcome.

You beat me thought~

I give thanks that you are here!
BOG

you! BOG

I'm going out though..

Yeah,...Bob Dole's alternative to "HillaryCare".

this is posted in the Barack Obama Group.. and sorry, those who are into cheap pot shots are not welcome here.

Please proceed to GD.

That's what we need and could have had. I am going to have to shop for insurance for the first time in years as the state program I'm in is being shut down due to ACA.

Really looking forward to that~

People really should understand that other people may be better informed than they are BEFORE they start talking 'what's what',. . lolz


Forcing people to buy for-profit insurance is a joke!

Don't even get me started on drone murder, and the non-investigations or prosecutions of the bankster,. and on and on.

whine about here. this is the Barack Obama Group and we look at the whole picture of what the Obama Admin has accomplished..and there's been tremendous victories.

But I honestly still can't believe they passed ACA. It's a step and one we hadn't been able to make for many years before President Obama. Getting everyone covered, covering pre-existing conditions and removing caps is important. I'd love to see insurance out of healthcare but it will take time.

And I think the President worked very hard to get this passed.

numbers in both houses of Congress in 2014, which I think we will!
Carry on.

(If you believe in that sorta thing.)

I know I'm going to work with some organizations again to get out the vote. 2010 proved just how important each and every election is!

I'm hopeful!

you're right but with all the extreme Obama bashing here on DU it almost seems like 2014 will 2010 all over again.

I mean with all the meanness towards the president, are these people going to be able to get past that and go out and vote for Dems in 2014 and not just stay at home?

Would be the "most progressive" policy "of my lifetime and by a wide margin." ?
Since the Heritage Foundation is the most progressive we can hope for by a wide margin it would be kinder just to shoot me in the head right now.

Ensuring the profit margin by mandate and government subsidies of a vulture industry that provides no actual health care and if fact can deny health care is about as progressive as mandating a mob protection racket as needed security for a storefront business, we'll just pay the fines via baseball bat to the store displays and a broken leg if we fail to obtain such needed "protection" from our protectors.

I don't, and we'll see who is right in the end.

It is a platform for a product that if one can even afford to buy one will most likely not be able to afford to use due to co-pays and deductibles designed to discourage users of this non-existent product from actually using it.

What is with the class tiered health access anyway? If one can only afford "bronze" because one is lower class one will also lack the cash needed for the inflated co-pays and deductibles that come with such "competitive" bronze plans.

I imagine those with lots of disposable income and gold plans will be happy with such a platform, the rest of us that won't be able to afford actual care under the bronze will just have to suck it up and stop being such a downer about not getting care yet paying for a vulture service that is little better than a "bronze" piece of expensive paper.

Do you agree with a class tier system of health care availability and delivery because it allows the precious market to provide to the worthy above all else, because that was The Foundations Rationale when developing this vulture market scam.

Never thought I would see such a thing in my lifetime. Denying people based on pre-existing conditions? Gone for good! Needing to stay in a job you don't really like just to keep the insurance? OVER! Needing to sign away your home because your father needed emergency surgery? Those days are almost behind us.

The bill didn't have everything I wanted, but damn if it isn't better than the status quo. If you don't think it's better than what we had, I don't see a need to have a discussion since our POV's are polar opposites.

I don't agree with class-tiered systems in principal - for anything - but I'm not going to throw the baby out with the bathwater until something perfect comes along.

BTW - I lived the third example about my father. He was a laborer who couldn't get insurance for our family because no one would sell it to us. He needed emergency surgery, and with the size of the hospital bill, we almost lost our home that he worked so hard to build with his own hands. Even under a bronze plan, his max out of pocket may have been something like $8-$10k on the high end, which is far more manageable than $80 - $100k. And we'll never know, but his condition might have been caught with the preventative care that's part of every plan.

So don't belittle me or the millions that Obamacare is going to help. It's going to change lives, even while you sit in a corner and pout about it.

for the bronze class.

I am happy for the gold class that can access actual care, and the subsidized profits of protection racket gatekeepers whose entire business model revolves around discouraging people from receiving actual care by using high co pays and deductibles. Those practices are specifically designed to keep actual care out of reach of bronze class people that can not afford the gate fees after paying for the policy itself!!

Dance away. Greed is good eh?

If it is, more power to you. But know I'll be fighting negative people like you tooth and nail while I volunteer for Enroll America to get as many people signed up as possible. It's going to be great!

You didn't address the points in my post. But then again, you don't want to have a discussion, so I'm not surprised.

Is that right?

Me: "This guacamole is great!"

Dawgs: "I don't see anything but mashed up avocados that are nearly rotten. The host must be a poopy pants idiot."

Me: "I think it's pretty darn good."

Dawgs: "Just pretty good? I thought you said it was great earlier. So it's only good now, eh?"

Me:

Dawgs: "I hate this guacamole so much I'm going to burn down this house! If you weren't such a hypocrite, you would strike the match and hold it for me."

Me:

Dawgs: "you must be a cheerleader for the avocado industry AND the match lobby. Corporatist!"

Me (to another guest): "Don't say anything about the guacamole to that guy. He may have a complete mental breakdown."

Me and the other guest:

Dawgs:

Got it.

not the reality of how many it is helplilng.

So since this is the Barack Obama Group.. you can take your negative bullshit elsewhere.

First, it was not primarily intended to push people to obtain protection for their own good, but to protect others. Like auto damage liability insurance required in most states, our requirement focused on “catastrophic” costs — so hospitals and taxpayers would not have to foot the bill for the expensive illness or accident of someone who did not buy insurance.

One feature was the individual mandate. The purpose of it was to round up the stragglers who wouldn’t be brought in by subsidies. We weren’t focused on bringing in high risks, which is what they're focused on now. We published the plan in Health Affairs in 1991. The Heritage Foundation was working on something similar at the time.

Bookmarking!

He explictly says they were not trying to bring "high risks" into the system.

I hadn't seen this before.

If you like that site you may also like The US Chamber of Commerce. The RNC and several other conservative offshoots put out by friends of Conservative Republican businessman.

I don't think it's great stuff, but I am not a conservative, I'm a Democrat and we tend to be more Mother Jones than Heritage Foundation. I know, I know, not very bi partisan of me, one of my flaws.

I don't agree with the Heritage Foundation, but I was thanking the poster for info that disputes that Obamacare is the approach the Heritage Foundation advocates.

people with expensive illnesses.

There are no such things as extreme right wing links that are good links, especially those weasels.

The standard is not only to adopt their policies but to link to the Heritage Foundation for DU news and opinion now as well? How "bipartisany" of us.

Of course they want the blame for this shit sandwich to rest entirely with Democrats. I can't believe you subscribe to such conservative trash, then again, third way is conservative.

In any event, luckily one can read the damn thing as proposed by them in '93 without the lying and re-rememberences of what they were pushing.

comes with cuts to the entire medicaid program that will further reduce the already few places that will treat medicaid recipients (exacerbating an already growing problem for places that can not perform for imbursement rates that are not enough to run a clinic on.)

Also although not specifically mentioned as caps the original version of this law covers that in other ways "guaranteed eligibility, availability, and renewability of health insurance coverage; (2) nondiscrimination based on health status;" and under the plans original draft, those that did not qualify for medicaid would get vouchers for the private plans instead.

Other than the lifetime cap which is dealt with in other ways, it is exactly what the Heritage Foundation proposed, which you appear to think is brilliant. Considering how much the Obama version of the Heritage bill changed, we likely could have gotten cap language with a threatened filibuster if any Democrats were stupid enough to adopt a right wing plan back then. We love Republican Ideas now that we knew were bad before.

Imagine that, old eighties and nineties Republicans didn't disappear, they simply invaded our party and brought their ideas with them it would seem.

Obamacare looks a lot more like the Swiss healthcare model than the bill you put up.

But hey, details.

They take full advantage of the opportunity. Allowing them access to a supposedly democratic website, especially the (safe haven? HAH!) BOG is enabling their villany and becoming equally responsible.

I love your family stories. And my family cheered with health care reform passed too. The only complaints I've heard is that my oldest aunt (aged 63) doesn't think it will kick in fast enough!

But they want humans to admire and listen to them. Those who do might as well hang up their DNA cards and pick up one labeled 'sheeple'.

ETA: But at the moment it looks pretty good so I guess it has its bad days.

Period.

But did you know you're in the Barack Obama Group? Sometimes people don't realize.

if you don't like it say why.

Kidding. Click the number and it shows the names.

But, I know there are those who deny it.

This is the Barack Obama Group and only those who support that progress are welcome here.

And the appointments that a President makes, if they tend to be for the one Percent and of the military, Industrial, Governmental Insider, Bought and Paid for Political Crowd, and now the Surveillance crowd, do not go unnoticed. Especially when month after month the situation for the middle class is worse.

In other words, were it not for this group of people being appointed, I would probably be an Obama fan today:
Tim Geithner, Who headed the US Treasury:
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Timothy_Geithner_official_portrait.jpg

Ben Bernanke, wh obama re-appoited to the Federal reserve:
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Ben_Bernanke.jpg&h=1743&w=1400&sz=888&tbnid=qx4NPSONAkCG7M:&tbnh=90&tbnw=72&zoom=1&usg=__24V_SsiT8ZQimWImLqzArPeMbX0=&docid=N5ljc7rE0mg9RM&sa=X&ei=8yfbUYvZGujryAHPtIGQBg&ved=0CDAQ9QEwAQ&dur=4468

Mike Taylor, appointed as a commissioner to the FDA, so that Monsanto's agenda could be promoted:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/fdaphotos/8190400421/

And of course, Henry K, adviser:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Kissinger&h=284&w=220&sz=10&tbnid=kDN1NHferxY8zM:&tbnh=115&tbnw=89&zoom=1&usg=__eVHawjGQqRiuNrCruEEjZwJcD78=&docid=KTYmyo31RT7GNM&sa=X&ei=wCfbUZnkLarxygGGk4D4Bg&ved=0CDMQ9QEwAg&dur=1235

And now Mr Clapper, who heads the NSA:

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=&imgrefurl=http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/02/james-clapper-nsa_n_3536483.html&h=1006&w=1536&sz=256&tbnid=LXU1gLTfX0DyaM:&tbnh=90&tbnw=137&zoom=1&usg=__ChOTNQO-rQb9zUC1_4O_XF8pqws=&docid=6Im9kCCqpWDR0M&sa=X&ei=MSjbUaOcBIPEyQH0xoCQCQ&ved=0CDcQ9QEwAg&dur=1574

Please Note: [h2][font color=red] I tried and tried to get Rahm Emanuel's photo posted here, but it wouldn't take.[/h2][/font color=red] (Which made me wonder if he has a reflection when he looks in the mirror?)

as such it is wide open at this time.

BFD. He appoints those who he thinks will be the best for the job. No matter what their past affiliations.

Those in the BOG and elsewhere don't think PBO is perfect but if they're like me.. they appreciate him for what he has accomplished and there has been a lot.

I prefer to focus on the Victories and what can still be accomplished and not dwell on the negative.. over and over and over again. ODS isn't going to get you anywhere.

Edit: changed "is" to "if".

for his 1% corporate funders.

For Romney.

have a real Democrat to vote for that walks his talk.

Vote McCain in 2008?

Welcome in the Barack Obama Group.

We have a reality based Group here.

The Barack Obama Group is reality based and cockroaches aren't allowed.

because they want to have constructive conversations about the president in their own group?

What's wrong with you?

We try to keep up with those who are disrespectful of boundaries. But, we're not always here in the BOG.

There should be a list at the top of the BOG hosts.. I don't know how up to date that is.. but I will contact Devon and make sure it is!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1102412

You should quit while you're ahead.

DU is a message board.

We have these things called Groups. You just replied to a post in a group.

Each has a charter and moderators to keep the conversation on topic. Groups cover things like movies, cooking, writing, LGBT activism, etc. People like them because they get to discuss topics with a like-minded group of people.

There are a variety of forums where anything goes on DU. Something for everyone!

Your posts on the BOG are akin to you interrupting a neighbor's book discussion group, pulling down your pants and taking a shit in the middle of it. And about as classy.

I agree with all you say politicub but to be fair all points of view are welcome in "general discussion".

in re: to anything goes.

Thanks for adding it to the discussion.

Would you call yourself a fascist for kicking him out, especially since he clearly mistook your home for an open pit toilet? I think not. And if you didn't kick him out hard and fast, only mewed about good manners, he'd know you for a fool and keep right on crapping and you'd deserve it then for lacking the spine to kick him out.

I'd like to maintain the hope that the BOG will rise to the occasion whether the entirety of DU does or not.

nothing.

But I've pretty much quit alerting on anything because it seldom does any good. Which the trolls know. They're not afraid of gentle reminders.

If BOG had been this way when I first found it, I would've held my nose and turned away. We need moderators with muscle back in service. Juries are useless when half of them could be trolls anyway. That's leaving the fox to guard the hen house. When has that ever worked?

Are you actually going to take the promised action instead of merely reminding them to behave, which you know they won't? Will you REALLY do it? I could've worn out that alert button today but didn't once because frankly, I see too much coddling right in front of my face. Polite reminders instead of a boot out the door.

who was blocked sends a DUmail stating that they didn't realize that they were posting in the BOG and then I unblock them.

For months we have had only a few during a month but today we had about a dozen. Currently there are a total of 77 blocked.

I'll try to keep my screams of outrage to an appropriate level, directed more accurately in the future.

unreal. WHy don't they just stay on their "I love Democrats--just not Obama" groups? Or just keep polluting the General Discussion board? Why come pursue people just to bash Obama?

Just so you know.

We know it goes to GD after 5 recs....however it is listed under "Barack Obama"

It is a group NOT a forum....

Read up on DU's rules please!

Sometimes it's like we living in different realities, just like with the Republicans.

shit what lies the asshole, Karl Rove, has to say.

Stick my face in a meat grinder, or post something positive about Obama in GD -- same outcome.

Thankful for the BOG, more and more every day.

shut-up with the criticisms lest the weak-minded be unduly influenced.

"Truth does not change according to our ability to stomach it."
-- Flannery O'Connor, writer (1925-1964)

"It is error only, and not truth, that shrinks from inquiry."
-- Thomas Paine, philosopher and writer (1737-1809)

So no reason to translate. I have to say its laughable to think the threads bashing the President and anyone who agrees with him rise to the level of influencing anyone.



“No persons are more frequently wrong, than those who will not admit they are wrong.”
― François de La Rochefoucauld

Everything we hear is an opinion, not a fact. Everything we see is a perspective, not the truth.
Marcus Aurelius

I have to say it's laughable to think that the posts/threads bashing those honestly criticizing the policies of BHO and those that agree with them rise to the level of influencing anyone.

"Facts do not cease to exist because they are ignored."
- Aldous Huxley, novelist (1894-1963)

"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge."
- Charles Darwin, naturalist and author (1809-1882)

"To announce that there must be no criticism of the president, or that we are to stand by the president right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public."
--Theodore Roosevelt

So my line doesn't work for you. Nor did I bash you. But hey don't let what I actually said get in your way!


“Take the risk of thinking for yourself, much more happiness, truth, beauty, and wisdom will come to you that way.

(Closing statement of the debate with William Dembski at Prestonwood Baptist Church, Plano, Texas, November 18, 2010)”
― Christopher Hitchens

“Everyone is in favor of free speech. Hardly a day passes without its being extolled, but some people's idea of it is that they are free to say what they like, but if anyone else says anything back, that is an outrage.”
― Winston Churchill

“Respect is a two-way street, if you want to get it, you've got to give it.”
― R. G. Risch

your line works fine for me, and its use isn't tethered to whether or not you "translated" my words.

and quit lying. There is only one plausible reason for this comment

I have to say its laughable to think the threads bashing the President and anyone who agrees with him rise to the level of influencing anyone.

And I think you should check where you are before you start with the moral treason bs.

No one said you couldn't "bash" our President (although not in this forum). But thinking that the nastiness and name calling (which you've given a fine example of here) out in GD somehow influences people is beyond ridiculous. Any mature, thinking person avoids those threads for the trash heaps they are. There is no meaningful dialogue going on there and it's sad because those are important issues.

You don't know the first thing about me yet you stereotype who I am and what I believe. Frankly, talking to people like that isn't worth the effort.

Have a nice day!

are you confused about where we "are"? That would appear to be the least of your confusions.

Like many of your ilk, you also seem to be CONfused about the definition/concept of reciprocity. I don't blame anyone that is "name-called", etc, for merely being critical of BHO for reacting negatively to their detractors because of the first blood drawn nature of this.

And I reject the notion that direct "name-calling" etc is substantively different from the efforts to mask the identical insult in 25 words or less, (or more as the top poster did) as well as the idea that just because some name-calling occurs that all the dialogue and arguments that accompanies it are rendered meaningless. Both sides (starting with yours notwithstanding) are playing a "you're a dumbass and here's why" game, and just because a "dumbass" designation may be a part of it doesn't refute the "why" part of it. It just at best, provides those like you cause based on some "civility" standard, to errorneously if not dishonestly dismiss the material in its entirety.

Do you think they/those posts are trying to influence people like you or the top poster here? Of course they're not. They're either in response to the frustration attributable to the illiberal intolerance and consequent namecalling, etc, from your camp, or to provide additional material in support of the indictment of BHO they all represent on the spying issue.

Gee, what's next, such positive (although I'm sure you'd characterize it as "negative" reinforcement) reinforcement those BHO "bashing" posts represent aren't influencing?

Noun
The capacity to have an effect on the character, development, or behavior of someone or something, or the effect itself.

Perhaps you need a laxative?



Your ilk
CONfused
Spend more time with a dictionary
Your kind
Those like you
Your kind

Again sweetie pie, you don't know me, but your need to define me is amusing. Btw, I didn't read past the first sentence-just to show how your post is about attacking me rather than making any valid point.

In short, you're screeching at yourself.

and yes, I'm quite accustomed to that as well as the "Long winded", "didn't read past the first sentence", "a valid point wasn't made" (like you could possibly know that after claiming to have not read it) dodges. The "LMAO" is almost always to be found too, which is understandable since laughter of that kind often accompanies recognition of ones impotence. Oh dear sweetie pie, did I once again "define" you?

What seems like a "long winded" response to you is a relatively brief effort to me, and at the expense of further "defining" you, it only speaks to our relative abilities to think and type. You're not a slow guy/gal, are you?

Nothing I posted was applicable to me other than as an explanation for this and that, and by your own admission, and despite claiming not to have "read it", it was mostly about "defining you" only and simply as one in the "BHO bashers/their efforts are bad and laughable -- if not insane" camp which your efforts in this post shows you to be. That of course is a very narrow case of defining, and hardly comparable to a much wider and therefore likely unsupportable case of "defining" you. As it turns out, you seem to support bashing on the part of your tribe -- even as the initiators of it -- but are highly critical of that which occurs in response to it. So I suppose hypocrite could be applied as well. As to the extent or subject specific ways in which that hypocrisy might manifest itself or be observed, again I can only make the very narrow case it is seen here on the "bashing" issue before us, but I would think it reasonable to argue it would be found outta you on ANY issue where BHO was being "bashed". That has already been seen outta many. As I've noted many times since this issue erupted, it's really nothing more than a repeat of the BS seen outta your kind over the chained cpi issue that started well before the election. How did that work out by the way?

So how that gets translated into my screeching at myself will have to remain a mystery that you are seemingly equally incapable of articulating without the insulting you deplore so much outta others. It looks to me like you were quickly reduced to the "last word" mode as is common with your kind, despite the assertion in your previous post that "my kind" aren't worth such an effort. Apparently that's just another example of your need for a dictionary and/or a confusion cure, given that even a "last word" effort is "talking to" those not worth the effort like me.

Have a nice evening, and I'll look forward to your next less than creative dodge similar in form and substance to the last one to someone not worth talking to. Do you often keep talking to those not worth talking to, and if so, why is that?

Do you often keep talking when no one is listening? How tiresome.

But you're right on one thing, this is a waste of my time.

Enjoy you're evening judging people you don't know and talking to yourself!

but welcomed.

I suppose it can be said that you know your limitations.