Barack Obama
Related: About this forumPresident Obama's Labor Day Message: "Raise the Minimum Wage"
Randall Reynolds @randallr01
Happy Labor Day! Honor the Labor Movement for giving us safer, more livable working conditions. #p2 #LivingWage #jobs pic.twitter.com/lrHFIBoPNn9:31 AM - 2 Sep 2013
Mahalo to TOD http://theobamadiary.com/2013/09/02/president-obamas-labor-day-message/
[font color=blue] This is Posted in the Barack Obama Group.[/font]
[font color=blue]Happy Labor Day, BOGgers![/font]
iandhr
(6,852 posts)lets see how long it takes.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)It was my first thought.
iandhr
(6,852 posts)I thought it would happen by now
Cha
(305,447 posts)you too
Cha
(305,447 posts)retired. Still excited about Labor Day.. Bless those who came before us to make Workers' lives better. And, thankful to those who are still in there fighting everyday to not let the Koch types take over the Country and dissolve Workers' Rights.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)So yes, I too, will always celebrate Labor Day as long as I live. I'll post some more on Labor later.
Cha
(305,447 posts)Yeah, we don't forget Labor Day just because we're retired.
Cha
(305,447 posts)they can't stand any Good important messages from PBO to get through?
ZombieHorde
(29,047 posts)Cha
(305,447 posts)I am about to watch Breaking Bad and Dexter with my wife, so that should be awesome!
sheshe2
(87,578 posts)Yes we can! Great Labor Day message.
For the Workers!
Cha
Cha
(305,447 posts)[font color=blue] BOG[/font] she
sheshe2
(87,578 posts)A wonderful quote~
I miss him.
Bog Cha.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 2, 2013, 06:06 PM - Edit history (1)
Someone was quoting the freedom and tyranny stuff from Plato and Aristotle here at DU the other day. I started to reply and then thought better of it, as both men lived at the top of a society built on the backs of slaves. They were in the leisure class who had time to talk.
Going further, I found the two philosophers' views on slavery, and why they considered it a natural state for some people. Not them, or course. Also they lumped in all those conquered by war and all women as having been born to be slaves.
And in their writings, they said should have no voice in their society, nor any right to decent treatment. It was detailed offensive stuff. I was too angry to post my rebuttal.
This was the basis of the Confederacy that blacks and other groups were born to be slaves. It the reason the hate unions, no inconsistency there.
It's the libertarian version of freedom, as described Lincoln, that they want the liberty to own other people as slaves to serve their own interests and make them rich.
This is view of the GOP and their darling Rand who is against all help for poor and working people, women and immigrants. I'm not ready to go and live on the plantation.
Union till the day I die.
Cha
(305,447 posts)history of which I knew nothing. About Plato and Aristocles, anyway.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Last edited Mon Jun 9, 2014, 03:58 PM - Edit history (1)
Plato excused / justified slavery:
http://www.jstor.org/discover/10.2307/2180538?uid=3739960&uid=2&uid=4&uid=3739256&sid=21102597678397
You know how the RW insists the USA is a 'republic' and not a 'democracy'? Limited government is all they are selling, not the Constitution, which says to look out for the general welfare.
Libertarians say 'democracy'is 'mob rule' as it increases the power of the inferior. Romans used the term 'democrats' as a perjorative since they tried to lift up the working class of the day.
Sound familiar?
More Plato here:
http://www.friesian.com/plato.htm
Now to Aristotle:
Some aspects of Aristotle's theory of slavery
Slavery -- natural or conventional?
Aristole's theory of slavery is found in Book I, Chapters iii through vii of the Politics. and in Book VII of the Nicomachean Ethics.
Aristotle raises the question of whether slavery is natural or conventional. He asserts that the former is the case. So, Aristotle's theory of slavery holds that some people are naturally slaves and others are naturally masters. Thus he says:
"But is there any one thus intended by nature to be a slave, and for whom such a condition is expedient and right, or rather is not all slavery a violation of nature?
There is no difficulty in answering this question, on grounds both of reason and of fact. For that some should rule and others be ruled is a thing not only necessary, but expedient; from the hour of their birth, some are marked out for subjection, others for rule."
This suggests that anyone who is ruled must be a slave, which does not seem at all right. Still, given that this is so he must state what characteristics a natural slave must have -- so that he or she can be recognized as such a being. Who is marked out for subjugation, and who for rule? This is where the concept of "barbarian" shows up in Aristotle's account. Aristotle says:
"But among barbarians no distinction is made between women and slaves, because there is no natural ruler among them: they are a community of slaves, male and female. Wherefore the poets say,
'It is meet that Hellenes should rule over barbarians';
as if they thought that the barbarian and the slave were by nature one."
So men rule naturally over women, and Greeks over barbarians! But what is it which makes a barbarian a slave? Here is what Aristotle says:
"Where then there is such a difference as that between soul and body, or between men and animals (as in the case of those whose business is to use their body, and who can do nothing better), the lower sort are by nature slaves, and it is better for them as for all inferiors that they should be under the rule of a master. For he who can be, and therefore is, another's and he who participates in rational principle enough to apprehend, but not to have, such a principle, is a slave by nature. Whereas the lower animals cannot even apprehend a principle; they obey their instincts. And indeed the use made of slaves and of tame animals is not very different; for both with their bodies minister to the needs of life. Nature would like to distinguish between the bodies of freemen and slaves, making the one strong for servile labor, the other upright, and although useless for such services, useful for political life in the arts both of war and peace. But the opposite often happens--that some have the souls and others have the bodies of freemen. And doubtless if men differed from one another in the mere forms of their bodies as much as the statues of the Gods do from men, all would acknowledge that the inferior class should be slaves of the superior. And if this is true of the body, how much more just that a similar distinction should exist in the soul? but the beauty of the body is seen, whereas the beauty of the soul is not seen. It is clear, then, that some men are by nature free, and others slaves, and that for these latter slavery is both expedient and right."
So the theory is that natural slaves should have powerful bodies but be unable to rule themselves. Thus, they become very much like beasts of burden, except that unlike these beasts human slaves recognize that they need to be ruled. The trouble with this theory, as Aristotle quite explicitly states, is that the right kind of souls and bodies do not always go together!
So, one could have the soul of a slave and the body of a freeman, and vice versa! Nonetheless, apparently because there are some in whom the body and soul are appropriate to natural slavery, that is a strong body and a weak soul, Aristotle holds that there are people who should naturally be slaves. It also seems that men naturally rule women and that bararians are naturally more servile than Greeks! This seems like an odd, indeed arbitrary, way for the virtues of the soul to be distributed!
Las Casas deals with a similar problem in regard to the native peoples of the Americas...
Contrast the ancient 1% with:
...John Locke's theory of slavery in The Second Treatise of Civil Government Locke does not believe in natural slaves or in the conventional view that all prisoners of war can be legitimately enslaved. He is a just war theorist who explicitly rejects the doctrine that might makes right.
http://oregonstate.edu/instruct/phl302/distance_arc/las_casas/Aristotle-slavery.html
I don't idolize people who defended slavery in the exact same terms as the Confederacy, in their claims of others' innate inferiority. The Founders owned slaves but realized if equality was going to mean anything it would have to be eliminated eventually.
The South rejected the idea of human equality by the same rationale as Plato and Aristotle. Th Libertarian party's ideas of governance ignore the rights of those whom the powerful regard as innately inferior and put on Earth for their use.
Enough!
Cha
(305,447 posts)a hurry, I might have noticed. that and my ADD has been in full blown rage!
Mahalo for the additional information on Plato and Aristotle, freshwest.
Not down with "better than thou" people. I had lots of life lessons early and later in life to cure me of any of that shite.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cha
(305,447 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Hartmann has authored in the area of attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder (ADHD) and adult attention-deficit disorder (AADD) and is the creator (first proposed by him in 1978, first published nationally in 1992) of the now well-known hunter vs. farmer theory that ADD is an expected evolutionary adaptation to hunting lifestyles.
These individuals have the ability of rapidly shifting their focus and external attention and of holding multiple trains of thought.
This ability causes difficulties when they must live and work in cultures in which "farming" well-planned, predictable, organized and repetitive behaviors is typical.
His first book on the disorder, Attention Deficit Disorder: a Different Perception was described by Scientific American as "innovative and fresh".[28]
Hartmann has established specialized schools[quantify] for children with ADHD, such as The Hunter School in Rumney, New Hampshire,[29] which he co-founded with his wife Louise.
He also operated the "ADD Forum" and "DeskTop Publishing Forum", along with several others, on CompuServe.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Hartmann#Attention-deficit_hyperactivity_disorder
* Will PM.
Cha
(305,447 posts)I saw this in ATA the other day..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/12593160
Which led me to this right now.. I'll have to check it out..
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1018468103
Mahalo for the information from Thom Hartman and ADHD and ADD, fresh. I use to have the hyperactivity. but, now it's slow ADD.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)SunSeeker
(53,698 posts)Last edited Mon Sep 2, 2013, 07:35 PM - Edit history (1)
and make them rich."
You nailed it freshwest. That is exactly what the Randians in the GOP want. Over my dead body!
Happy Labor Day!
Fellow proud union member,
SunSeeker.
freshwest
(53,661 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)doc03
(36,715 posts)a raise, organize and fight like our grandfathers did. The problem is when the unions gained power the members became fat and lazy and forgot history. The members didn't take an interest or even attend meetings and the leadership was corrupted by golf outings and NFL tickets from management.
Cha
(305,447 posts)Raising Minimum Wage.
http://www.rollcall.com/news/democrats_look_for_momentum_on_minimum_wage-225770-1.html
We're not giving up.. nor will we ever.
Happy Labor Day, doc
mountain grammy
(27,281 posts)This message brought to you by a 100% true blue, country serving, union family!
freshwest
(53,661 posts)Cha
(305,447 posts)the way you put that.. [font color=blue] "This message brought to you by a 100% true blue, country serving, union family!"[/font]
mountain grammy
(27,281 posts)freshwest
(53,661 posts)Jesse Jackson addresses huge rally at WI State Capitol
Uploaded on Feb 18, 2011
Jesse Jackson speaks to protestors gathered on the Wisconsin Capitol Square in Madison, Wis. on Feb. 18, 2011. Protests and demonstrations are ongoing in response to provisions in Gov. Walker's budget repair bill that would strip public employees of their collective bargaining rights.
Cha
(305,447 posts)Labor, from Wisconsin, freshwest!
DevonRex
(22,541 posts)See, we've been telling people it exists!!!
hopemountain
(3,919 posts)because we are a longtime union working family descended from laborers and farmworkers. i am grateful for my many early union jobs because as a single parent, i earned a bit more than most folks in my neighborhood and was able to provide a good little home for my daughter and i. we had health care, too. it was a fucked up job, but i was willing to be a cog in the wheel to keep a decent roof over our heads, drive a 2nd hand used, but safe vehicle, pay for day care, preschool, tutoring, etc. it's when i left the unions and took a non profit job that our lives became more of a day to day, paycheck to paycheck struggle. but, somehow, despite it all, we made it.
Cha
(305,447 posts)Glad you were able to get your Union job and provide so well for your family.
My work was for a non profit Co-op but I loved my job and my kids were grown and on their own.