Barack Obama

madamesilverspurs

(16,048 posts) Wed May 20, 2015, 07:06 PM May 2015

The left is so wrong on the Trans-Pacific Partnership

...
But then we have Warren stating with a straight face that handing negotiating authority to Obama would “give Republicans the very tool they need to dismantle Dodd-Frank.”

Huh? Obama swatted down the remark as wild, hypothetical speculation, noting he engaged in a “massive” fight with Wall Street to get the reforms passed. “And then I sign a provision that would unravel it?” he told political writer Matt Bai.
...
Trade agreements have a thousand moving parts. The United States can’t negotiate with the other countries if various domestic interests are pouncing on the details. That’s why every president has been given fast-track authority over the past 80 years or so.

Except Obama.

http://www.seattletimes.com/opinion/the-left-is-so-wrong-on-the-trans-pacific-partnership/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=social&utm_campaign=article_left

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17 replies

= new reply since forum marked as read

Highlight:

The left is so wrong on the Trans-Pacific Partnership (Original Post) madamesilverspurs May 2015 OP

I did not know that about the past 80 years. NYC_SKP May 2015 #1

My decision on whether has been in reserve for some time, I would like to see the final agreement. Thinkingabout May 2015 #2

Excellent article. Every Prez "Except Obama." Quite damning if you ask me. Hoyt May 2015 #3

“This is not a partisan issue,” Warren insisted. Yes, in a twisted way, the hard left’s fixation Cha May 2015 #7

"Warren: Obama is intellectually dishonest. Man, that's a fancy way of calling a man a liar." Cha May 2015 #8

I basically trust Obama on this issue MBS May 2015 #4

The complete dismissal of the president is what is wrong. yallerdawg May 2015 #5

Look at Elizabeth Warren giving props to the fact that she thinks that GWB was more transparent than Cha May 2015 #9

I've been very disappointed by Warren's showboating on this MBS May 2015 #11

Thank you for all those quotes from the link, MBS.. I think you're one of the rare people who Cha May 2015 #12

Say whaaaaaaat?? Major Hogwash May 2015 #16

+ 100 n/t MBS May 2015 #10

I was going to post this.. mahalo madame. The case put forth by a showboating U.S. Sen. EW Cha May 2015 #6

Washington state has done really well these last 5 years or so, especially in the area of trade. Major Hogwash May 2015 #17

I finally read the whole oped MBS May 2015 #13

"It sure is hard to be an intelligent leader in this country." Indeed. great white snark May 2015 #14

" " " " n/t MBS May 2015 #15

NYC_SKP

(68,644 posts)

1. I did not know that about the past 80 years.

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 07:09 PM

May 2015

I still trust my president to do the right thing.

Thinkingabout

(30,058 posts)

2. My decision on whether has been in reserve for some time, I would like to see the final agreement.

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 07:21 PM

May 2015

Trade agreements are needed between nations.

Hoyt

(54,770 posts)

3. Excellent article. Every Prez "Except Obama." Quite damning if you ask me.

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 08:35 PM

May 2015

Cha

(305,440 posts)

7. “This is not a partisan issue,” Warren insisted. Yes, in a twisted way, the hard left’s fixation

Reply to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:32 AM

May 2015

over big corporations has joined the right’s determination to undermine Obama at every pass."

Exactly.

Cha

(305,440 posts)

8. "Warren: Obama is intellectually dishonest. Man, that's a fancy way of calling a man a liar."

Reply to Hoyt (Reply #3)

Thu May 21, 2015, 02:02 AM

May 2015

Liberal Librarian ‎@Lib_Librarian
Warren: Obama is intellectually dishonest.

Man, that's a fancy way of calling a man a liar.
12:46 PM - 19 May 2015

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/05/19/the-world-celebrates-the-revolutionary-malcolm-x/

But, but, but, he called her "Elizabeth".. fuck that noise.

MBS

(9,688 posts)

4. I basically trust Obama on this issue

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 09:33 PM

May 2015

and I've been hating all the stridency
If it were any other president, especially if it were a Republican president (or a less worker-friendly Democrat), I could understand the skepticism more. But undermining Obama would just leave it for some other country (say, China, as Obama mentioned) or some future administration to settle the agreement their way. Among those choices, Obama is easily my favorite option for trade negotiator.

Ruth Marcus wrote an interesting column in today's Washington Post. I don't buy 100% of her piece, but I do agree with her that many of the objections to TPP are based on less than solid foundation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/a-phony-argument/2015/05/19/85c3a026-fe4c-11e4-805c-c3f407e5a9e9_story.html

Some sample excerpts

This is not secrecy for secrecy’s sake; it’s secrecy for the sake of negotiating advantage. Exposing U.S. bargaining positions or the offers of foreign counterparts to public view before the agreement is completed would undermine the outcome. Indeed, extracting the maximum concessions from other countries may not be possible until after Congress grants the fast-track authority to convince foreign competitors that the agreement has a shot. The labor leaders who decry this backroom deal wouldn’t want their collective bargaining negotiations conducted in the public glare... .
. . .
So what about those corporate lobbyists writing the deal behind closed doors? Well, the working groups were established by congressional fiat. The Obama administration has moved to expand the membership to include representatives of labor and environmental groups. It tried to kick lobbyists off — until it was sued for doing so.

As to Warren’s complaint that Bush released the text of a previous trade agreement, the countries involved in the Free Trade Area of the Americas agreed to make initial proposals public. This disclosure was a departure, not the norm — and, by the way, the deal fizzled.

yallerdawg

(16,104 posts)

5. The complete dismissal of the president is what is wrong.

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Wed May 20, 2015, 10:32 PM

May 2015

The deliberate misrepresentation of the process and goals is wrong.

A fair hearing of the final draft is reasonable. We can reject it then if we want.

Cha

(305,440 posts)

9. Look at Elizabeth Warren giving props to the fact that she thinks that GWB was more transparent than

Reply to yallerdawg (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 03:34 AM

May 2015

PBO..

psychedelicatessen ‎@MentalRiot

Look at Elizabeth Warren giving props to the fact that she thinks that GWB was more transparent than PBO. Everyday I dismiss her even more.
11:06 AM - 19 May 2015

http://theobamadiary.com/2015/05/19/the-world-celebrates-the-revolutionary-malcolm-x/

I didn't know she was pulling this shite.. she's totally lost it.

MBS

(9,688 posts)

11. I've been very disappointed by Warren's showboating on this

Reply to Cha (Reply #9)

Thu May 21, 2015, 05:09 AM

May 2015

In trying to find psychedelicatessen's comment in the Obamadiary thread you posted, I ran across others that resonated with my own feelings. Look especially at comments by 57andfemale and FoxfireTX

I'm not a super-fan of Hillary, to say the least, but she is right not to make public statements on TPP right now, and Warren is wrong to press her to do so. First of all, I think Hillary agrees with PBO anyway. And, second, even if she did not (which, again, I doubt) , it would be highly unpresidential for her to openly disagree with the president.

I've really hated all the yelling and stridency and posturing by Dems (MY party : () on this issue. Unworthy of us, and less than helpful to President Obama, to say the least.

FoxfireTX
May 19, 2015 at 7:18 pm
What’s really sad, 57, is when Warren focuses her anger on the Rs she is brilliant and would be a true asset to the Dems. I posted previously on her keynote speech to the CA Dem convention and it was a thing of beauty, best take down of trickle down economics I’ve ever heard from anyone. But she is so full of herself she thinks she is cool taking on the Dems as well, as if she knows best. She could be tremendous and instead is a nightmare. And for all of those rooting for EW presidential run, that is delusional. She is far too angry to make a good candidate and her focus is very limited.

Reply
2657andfemale
May 20, 2015 at 10:44 am
It shows her political naivete, Foxfire. She doesn’t understand how to handle disagreements (I have no problem with opposing views, as long as they don’t do damage). But she is doing severe damage to the Democratic brand and therefore to her country. She could offer her expertise and opinions, privately, be part of the solution instead of part of the problem. She could bother to understand the complexity of trade agreements, and weigh – fairly – whether we are better with nothing than with something that curtails global abuses. But this is where she falls apart. It’s sad.

Reply
57andfemale
May 20, 2015 at 11:10 am
To say further, she IS brilliant. I believe in 99% of what she believes. But doing damage to the party, to PBO who has carved the way for every progressive policy moving forward – is not acceptable. She should know better, she should understand what’s going on. We cannot rebuild properly with this kind of idiocy. Someone as bright as Elizabeth Warren – there is no excuse.

Cha

(305,440 posts)

12. Thank you for all those quotes from the link, MBS.. I think you're one of the rare people who

Reply to MBS (Reply #11)

Thu May 21, 2015, 06:46 AM

May 2015

ever go to those links.. that I've heard about anyway.

I think there are some really intelligent people on TOD who have been into what's going on in politics for a long time. I've learned a lot over the years.. and I don't always agree with everything but there are great information gatherers!

Liberal Librarian ‎@Lib_Librarian
Warren: Obama is intellectually dishonest.

Man, that's a fancy way of calling a man a liar.
12:46 PM - 19 May 2015

Turns out Sen Warren is projecting..

"Elizabeth Warren is Not Telling the Truth About The Trans-Pacific Partnership Trade Deal"

As far as it goes, both groups probably have at least some reason to take offense, although President Obama’s occasional tendency toward informality is, right or wrong, verifiably not gender-based. But on the substance, there is clearly no contest: President Obama is right, and Senator Warren is wrong.

More precisely, President Obama is telling the truth about the deal, and Senator Warren is not. Since the TPP deal is still under negotiation, the merits of the final agreement are (or will be) debatable, but the deceptive rhetoric being employed by Warren is not.

The issue of trade is one of the (rare) areas in which I consider myself a moderate Democrat, able to see the merits of both sides of the question, but persuadable in either direction. Like many Democrats, I’ve got a strong sense that in trade deals past, we’ve gotten screwed, and that our leaders have not properly leveraged the value of the American consumer. On the other hand, President Obama makes a compelling case that the trade choo-choo is leaving the station, with us or without us, and so we’re better off having our hand somewhere on the throttle. Either way, I also believe that every leader needs political pressure from the left, because it makes them get us a better deal

More..
http://thedailybanter.com/2015/04/elizabeth-warren-is-not-telling-the-truth-about-the-trans-pacific-partnership-trade-deal/

And, of course, the OP points out EW's lies, too.

snip//

"But then we have Warren stating with a straight face that handing negotiating authority to Obama would “give Republicans the very tool they need to dismantle Dodd-Frank.”

Huh? Obama swatted down the remark as wild, hypothetical speculation, noting he engaged in a “massive” fight with Wall Street to get the reforms passed. “And then I sign a provision that would unravel it?” he told political writer Matt Bai.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)

16. Say whaaaaaaat??

Reply to Cha (Reply #9)

Sun May 24, 2015, 03:41 AM

May 2015

I didn't know she said that crap!
What the hell side of the aisle is she on, anyway?

That's just not going to pass the frickin' sniff test!
No way in hell was Dubya more transparent!

Well, I had heard that even Nixon had fast track authority, but I wasn't sure about that, so I kept mum.
Because speaking out here at DU supporting Obama just draws unwarranted criticism.
I get so sick and tired of it sometimes, I just want to throw my hands up and keep them off the keyboard!

MBS

(9,688 posts)

10. + 100 n/t

Reply to yallerdawg (Reply #5)

Thu May 21, 2015, 04:42 AM

May 2015

Cha

(305,440 posts)

6. I was going to post this.. mahalo madame. The case put forth by a showboating U.S. Sen. EW

Reply to madamesilverspurs (Original post)

Thu May 21, 2015, 01:29 AM

May 2015

D-Mass., — that Obama cannot be trusted to make a deal in the interests of American workers — is almost worse than wrong. It is irrelevant"

snip//

"In Washington state, for example, exports of everything from apples to airplanes have soared 40 percent over four years to total nearly $91 billion in 2014, according to The Seattle Times. About two in five jobs there are now tied to trade.

Small wonder that U.S. Sen. Ron Wyden, a liberal Democrat from neighboring Oregon, has strongly supported fast-track authority."

snip//

"But then we have Warren stating with a straight face that handing negotiating authority to Obama would “give Republicans the very tool they need to dismantle Dodd-Frank.”

Huh? Obama swatted down the remark as wild, hypothetical speculation, noting he engaged in a “massive” fight with Wall Street to get the reforms passed. “And then I sign a provision that would unravel it?” he told political writer Matt Bai.

Major Hogwash

(17,656 posts)

17. Washington state has done really well these last 5 years or so, especially in the area of trade.

Reply to Cha (Reply #6)

Sun May 24, 2015, 04:01 AM

May 2015

My older brother lives in Seattle, and he told me that the entire city has been a hubbub of activity ever since 2010.
He said that Boeing nearly fled Seattle just a few years ago, and that they threaten to take their jobs to a different state nearly every Presidential election cycle it seems.
But, he said the machinists union backed off from their last demands in order to save their jobs, and in the process, they prospered by the increase in orders, that lead to the creation of more job openings!
Well, well, well, how about that for some good news.

Yet, it puzzles me sometimes when members of DU that live in nearby Washington state don't brag about their healthy economy very much here at DU.

But then, that wouldn't do much to further the meme at DU that Obama hasn't created any jobs, and that there are no new jobs in America, and that everyone is eating government cheese now just to get by, simply because the cost of mac and cheese is just too high for all of those poor, unfortunate, out-of-work souls to afford to buy at Costco in quantities larger than the family-sized 25 box-pack anymore!