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Info on the Protest March on the DNC (Original Post) sarae Jun 2016 OP
Their gofundme page is sad. displacedtexan Jun 2016 #1
They're going to have to sleep in the van they can rent with that. BobbyDrake Jun 2016 #6
Nah, 3 hots & a cot compliments of the taxpayers. You know, the oligarchs. grossproffit Jun 2016 #18
Ridiculous! The DNC has been 'unfair' to Sanders and does not represent 'the will of the citizens' SharonClark Jun 2016 #2
Pretty much destroys any notion of democratic values pandr32 Jun 2016 #3
Yes! How is that democratic? sarae Jun 2016 #7
There isn't a rational reason pandr32 Jun 2016 #8
He's been so insulting to the Dem party and HRC and her supporters. sarae Jun 2016 #10
After the revolution... teamster633 Jun 2016 #12
We have never had real communism pandr32 Jun 2016 #13
Maybe I misunderstood there being a distinction while there was actually no difference. teamster633 Jun 2016 #14
I have a copy of "The Communist Manifesto" pandr32 Jun 2016 #17
Socialism is best understood as an outgrowth from and a perfection/refinement of capitalism. forjusticethunders Jun 2016 #20
Agreed, and I enjoyed your post pandr32 Jun 2016 #21
SMDH DemonGoddess Jun 2016 #4
Didn't the campaign spokesperson say Sanders was going to deliver a "victory statement" at this? sarae Jun 2016 #9
"Our job is not to divide. Our job is to bring people together." caquillo Jun 2016 #5
Something tells me Blue Idaho Jun 2016 #11
It would be great if they had a big hurricane! Walk away Jun 2016 #15
Doesn't really have much support it seems Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin Jun 2016 #16
Serve free beer and free college, and lots of people will show up. Koinos Jun 2016 #19
 

BobbyDrake

(2,542 posts)
6. They're going to have to sleep in the van they can rent with that.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 11:48 AM
Jun 2016

A far cry from the private chartered jet a la Bernie Sanders they probably thought they'd be funded to rent.

SharonClark

(10,323 posts)
2. Ridiculous! The DNC has been 'unfair' to Sanders and does not represent 'the will of the citizens'
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 11:34 AM
Jun 2016

The gist of it:
SuperDs are good if they vote for Sanders and corrupt if they vote for Hillary
The 'citizens' are no parties and repugs
The voters, who support Hillary in higher numbers than Sanders, don't count

pandr32

(12,168 posts)
3. Pretty much destroys any notion of democratic values
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 11:43 AM
Jun 2016

May as well strike the "democratic" part out of "democratic socialist." Add "authoritarian" instead as we find ourselves with a wannabe dictator running on the ticket of our party.

sarae

(3,284 posts)
7. Yes! How is that democratic?
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 11:49 AM
Jun 2016

I still haven't heard an explanation for why the majority of votes should be discounted.

pandr32

(12,168 posts)
8. There isn't a rational reason
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:05 PM
Jun 2016

Sanders (and his campaign) has shown himself to be petty and vindictive. He actually wants to exact personal vengeance on liberals he feels have slighted him--not caring that it hurts the Democrat Party. He has a massive ego and apparently places himself far above the Party--not to mention, the progressive ideals of his own campaign platform. Behold the man.

sarae

(3,284 posts)
10. He's been so insulting to the Dem party and HRC and her supporters.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:16 PM
Jun 2016

It kills me that he became a Dem last-minute and now expects the red carpet treatment. How does that make sense?

teamster633

(2,032 posts)
12. After the revolution...
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:55 PM
Jun 2016

...Lenin found it expedient to implement communism in a "noble" attempt to implement socialism...just saying.

pandr32

(12,168 posts)
13. We have never had real communism
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 01:09 PM
Jun 2016

Once all resources and power gets centralized everything stops before it is properly distributed to the People. Power corrupts. I think Bernie has been feeling his oats, too. He has never had so much attention before.

teamster633

(2,032 posts)
14. Maybe I misunderstood there being a distinction while there was actually no difference.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 01:23 PM
Jun 2016

Growing up in the sixties I was programmed to think of Soviet communism as being a tragically flawed attempt to realize a utopian socialist state. In retrospect, considering Marx wrote "The Communist Manifesto", I have no idea how I came to make that distinction.

pandr32

(12,168 posts)
17. I have a copy of "The Communist Manifesto"
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 02:11 PM
Jun 2016

...left over from college. I remember being very surprised when I read it because I expected something sinister. The idealism of true capitalism hasn't been reached either. It was based on the presumption that human beings have inherent goodness and decency and so things would have balance. Maybe some do, but there will always be those that will take advantage and grab power--upsetting things for everyone else.
Louis Althusser's essays on ideological apparatuses nails down what happens in organized society.
https://www.marxists.org/reference/archive/althusser/1970/ideology.htm


 

forjusticethunders

(1,151 posts)
20. Socialism is best understood as an outgrowth from and a perfection/refinement of capitalism.
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 03:25 PM
Jun 2016

Capitalism creates massive amounts of wealth but concentrates it at the top among the "wealth producers" who gain a disproportionate share of the wealth created while creating negative externalities that harm society. Socialism in its various forms (ranging from communism to social democracy/modern liberalism) seeks to rectify these imbalances for the greater good. The issue isn't the theory, the issue is the practice. Socialist movements tend to run on a dangerous combo of hope, idealism and righteous anger, and that often precludes the movements for acting in their own best interest to create positive change. Socialist ideals have advanced the farthest by grass roots organizing, consistent, conscious political action, consensus and coalition building and exploiting divisions between the more far-sighted and moral members of the 1% (think Bill Gates, FDR, John Mackey, etc) versus the immoral, mean, sociopathic members (Trump, Koch Brothers, the Bushes etc etc). Doing those things requires compromise and sometimes having to table certain things you want (for example if you need benevolent rich people to win then you have to temper your demands for wealth redistribution, but in return you get progress in other areas and more institutional power), but the lefties you see around the Bernie campaign are not inclined to do that for various reasons, they'd rather break everything because the system is unjust. And in many ways it is,but that path is dangerous because at best, you'll accomplish nothing and alienate voters who value stability and don't want to risk current incremental progress on a massive upheaval, at worst, the massive upheaval will hurt vulnerable people.

Anyway I rambled a lot but the the main point is that vulgar socialism is unproductive and alienating.

pandr32

(12,168 posts)
21. Agreed, and I enjoyed your post
Fri Jun 3, 2016, 12:36 PM
Jun 2016

Your point about the "more far-sighted and moral members of the 1%" is important. When wealthy and powerful people recognize their privilege, and that it comes with a responsibility to society--why the hell should they be lumped in with others like Murdoch and Sheldon Adelson (as examples)--heck--Trump, too!

sarae

(3,284 posts)
9. Didn't the campaign spokesperson say Sanders was going to deliver a "victory statement" at this?
Thu Jun 2, 2016, 12:10 PM
Jun 2016

It basically boils down to, "We will not accept that he lost." I'm not clear on what comes after that, or what exactly they mean to do. I just hope there's no physical intimidation and verbal assaults on HRC's people.

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