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Kaleva

(38,373 posts)
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:23 AM Jun 2012

Behaviour towards women

To this day, I'll hold open a door for a woman and let her enter before me. When my ex and I are to drive somewhere, I'll open the passenger door for her and when she gets in, I'll close it. I address women older then me who I do not know as "Ma'am". If I'm sitting in a room visiting people and a woman my age or older enters, I'll stand and if there are no other seats available, I'll offer mine. If there is a woman behind me in a checkout who has fewer items then me, I'll ask if she wishes to cut ahead of me (I don't do that for guys.).

Is this sexist behavior or just good manners?

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Behaviour towards women (Original Post) Kaleva Jun 2012 OP
Depends on who you ask. Behind the Aegis Jun 2012 #1
When I was younger, I'd address men who were in poition of authority... Kaleva Jun 2012 #2
I address all men as "Sir" is they are older or a position of authority. Behind the Aegis Jun 2012 #3
Probably it's because the way I raised. Kaleva Jun 2012 #4
Well, you asked earlier if it was sexist. Behind the Aegis Jun 2012 #5
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2012 #13
Me too! Behind the Aegis Jun 2012 #14
It makes me feel knighted! n/t Gore1FL Jun 2012 #18
Is there a third category? caseymoz Jun 2012 #6
Good manners would extend to all people, men and women. jp11 Jun 2012 #7
I was brought up to be polite.. Upton Jun 2012 #8
The two aren't mutually exclusive. lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #9
I kinda think you should do those things for anyone 4th law of robotics Jun 2012 #10
Good manners libodem Jun 2012 #11
This message was self-deleted by its author Warren DeMontague Jun 2012 #12
I drive but don't get to pick the music or handle the temp. controls. Kaleva Jun 2012 #15
If momma ain't happy, nobody's happy? lumberjack_jeff Jun 2012 #16
It's interesting when she and her daughter go somewhere. Kaleva Jun 2012 #17
I do those things to everyone much of the time. n/t Gore1FL Jun 2012 #19

Behind the Aegis

(54,901 posts)
1. Depends on who you ask.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:32 AM
Jun 2012

I hold open doors for anyone. If you are riding with me, you can open your own door. I will give up my seat for anyone who seems to need it, if no others are available. As for the checkout line, that depends on my mood, but usually I go first if I am first. I call older people "Ma'am" and "Sir" as part of my upbringing.

Kaleva

(38,373 posts)
2. When I was younger, I'd address men who were in poition of authority...
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:37 AM
Jun 2012

as "Sir", such as police officers but I don't do that anymore. They can call me "Sir" now.

Behind the Aegis

(54,901 posts)
3. I address all men as "Sir" is they are older or a position of authority.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 12:40 AM
Jun 2012

Why do you think you don't do this for men, but do it for women?

Behind the Aegis

(54,901 posts)
5. Well, you asked earlier if it was sexist.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 01:53 AM
Jun 2012

I guess some could still say "yes," and others "no." But, it is definitely biased.

Response to Behind the Aegis (Reply #1)

Behind the Aegis

(54,901 posts)
14. Me too!
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 02:48 PM
Jun 2012

I feel the same when I am called "mr.", as well. There are tiems when someone has called Mr. BTA and I haven't responded because I am not used to hearing my own last name or I think they are addressing my father.

caseymoz

(5,763 posts)
6. Is there a third category?
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 04:51 AM
Jun 2012

I don't do any of that for women especially. I'll hold the door open for people. I never, or hardly ever say Ma'am. If a person is older or in some way, disabled or burdened, I'll offer them mine. I've probably done that checkout thing before, but never in recent memory.

Why would you aim those courtesies especially at women, as opposed everyone, or as opposed to women you find attractive? Is it because you think they're of a higher or lower status than you? I realize you're going to say it's good manners. In any culture, however, manners and etiquette vary according to perceived difference in status.

The devil is in the details.

jp11

(2,104 posts)
7. Good manners would extend to all people, men and women.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:03 AM
Jun 2012

Holding the door open I feel is one of those 'old' style things put on men to be polite to women, or the elderly because of gender roles and sexism, women 'the weaker sex'. If I hold a door open, meaning I wait for them to get in/out, I do it because the person is a child/elderly person/otherwise has mobility issues/burdened with items. It is less often that anyone, especially a women will hold a door open for me except in the situation that I am burdened with items. I also find men are more likely to at least hold the door open if they are in front of me so I don't have to open it myself, but they don't wait for me to fully enter/exit, something I also do for those behind me.

Opening the car door for a women I see as 'fine' especially if it is locked and you use a key, closing it to me seems more like she isn't capable of doing it herself, sort of like tucking her in, but that's my view. I tend to think that is 'too much' unless it is a really formal setting like being out with in-laws, a business trip, or perhaps a first date but the date would probably need to be 'fancy'.

I don't know what one would call an older women, if it were obvious she was older, besides ma'am. I used miss at one time but didn't know that was 'supposed' to be for younger women. Honestly if there is another term to call an older women you don't know I'm drawing a blank. Beyond that I sometimes avoided using ma'am or miss and went with no identifier, ie excuse me or directly to asking a question or whatever my purpose was about.

In a formal setting, I can see standing when a women enters a room, but beyond that it seems really dated.

As a rule unless someone has literally a handful of items like 5 or so and I have a ton I don't offer anyone the option to skip me. It is extremely rare I have a 'lot' of stuff that someone waiting for me is going to be held up enough to warrant me letting them skip me. I also don't take my cart load of crap into the express lane or the shortest lane that other people with one item will line up behind me. This has happened on the automated scanners built for people to take a cart load of groceries, there are 4 scanners for express self scan and 2 for cart load self scan many people overlook the cart self scan and sometimes lineup behind my cart with their two items I do not offer them to jump me as they always come after I've started scanning.

That's my perspective, in my early 30's, and people have all sorts of views on these things. I'm sure as I see some of those things as dated there are some people that would think me rude for not always doing them.

Upton

(9,709 posts)
8. I was brought up to be polite..
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 07:05 AM
Jun 2012

I always open doors for women and things..I enjoy doing it and most women respond with a smile and a thank you. However, there is a certain percentage of women who will give me a look like I just killed their dog.

I guess they think I'm being sexist? I don't even know..

 

lumberjack_jeff

(33,224 posts)
9. The two aren't mutually exclusive.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 09:40 AM
Jun 2012

If another person is approaching the door within 20 seconds of me, I'll hold the door open so that someone can enter behind me. Men and elderly women will say thanks. 80% of younger women will say nothing.

Sex selective "manners" are the most obvious manifestation of the patriarchy. She's as capable of standing, waiting and opening a door as I am.

 

4th law of robotics

(6,801 posts)
10. I kinda think you should do those things for anyone
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 11:40 AM
Jun 2012

not just women.

/I will stand up for someone who is clearly less able to stand comfortably than I am. But not specifically because that person is female. Women are as capable of standing as men are.

Response to Kaleva (Original post)

Kaleva

(38,373 posts)
15. I drive but don't get to pick the music or handle the temp. controls.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 03:26 PM
Jun 2012

Her opinion is that if she is comfortable and is enjoying the music she selected, then I must be too!

Kaleva

(38,373 posts)
17. It's interesting when she and her daughter go somewhere.
Mon Jun 4, 2012, 08:35 PM
Jun 2012

They both have the attitude that they ought to be the one that selects the music and set the temperature controls. Many times I had to go along and be the driver so I would be the peace keeper.

Same thing with my ex and her sister. One trip they went on together it got so bad my ex pulled over and they both got out of the car and they went at each other with their purses.

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