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unhappycamper

(60,364 posts)
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 05:51 AM Jan 2014

I need a new frame of reference (and your opinion)

I've been looking for an easily understood and remembered way to think of how much a billion dollars is. A billion dollars is a shitload of money; it's a one followed by nine zeros: $1,000,000,000.

How many $25,000 jobs can you 'buy' with a billion dollars? $1,000,000,000 / 25,000 = 40,000. So one billion dollars can 'buy' 40,000 $25,000 jobs.

Let's give this a try with some big ticket items.

Here's a $35 billion dollar program that should be rethought: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11783348
35 x 40,000 = 1,400,000
Thirty five billion dollars = 1.4 million ($25k) jobs.

One more: We just floated our newest destroyer, the USS Zumwalt. The cost for this bad boy is $5.6 billion dollars or 7,840,000 ($25k) jobs.

Comments?

Thanks,
unhappycamper


25 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
I need a new frame of reference (and your opinion) (Original Post) unhappycamper Jan 2014 OP
A couple of thoughts here Sherman A1 Jan 2014 #1
it's an easy number to do the math with..... lastlib Jan 2014 #12
Granted it is Sherman A1 Jan 2014 #13
25 grand is a lot more than I make.... panader0 Jan 2014 #14
This. orpupilofnature57 Jan 2014 #2
I've been using the 2914 discretionary budget pie chart unhappycamper Jan 2014 #3
I would like to see the equivalent pie charts for Canada, United Kingdom, and various European RC Jan 2014 #17
I fumbled around, You got it !! orpupilofnature57 Jan 2014 #25
7,84 million jobs. Walmart has about 2ish million employees, so nearly 4 entire Walmart Corps. n/t jtuck004 Jan 2014 #4
20,000 Teachers @50k/year Martin Eden Jan 2014 #5
Arithmetic mistake caraher Jan 2014 #6
I've informally used something I've dubbed "the BMI index"... JHB Jan 2014 #7
It will cost a million dollars each to keep our troops in Afghanistan until 2015. another_liberal Jan 2014 #8
Seems like a good math exercise, but... ReRe Jan 2014 #9
OP is wrong on the jobs count anasv Jan 2014 #10
Can you, please, provide a source to validate your claim? - n/t mazzarro Jan 2014 #16
No, not 2-3 times. Many employers use 30% of salary for benefits. Scuba Jan 2014 #19
Perhaps Augiedog Jan 2014 #11
Here's how I reference billions...... DeSwiss Jan 2014 #15
Corporate mafia. toby jo Jan 2014 #18
That's a good link... Blanks Jan 2014 #22
I've posted the link previously...... DeSwiss Jan 2014 #24
What a trillion dollars looks like. CrispyQ Jan 2014 #20
That one is good Sentath Jan 2014 #21
That was fascinating. CrispyQ Jan 2014 #23

Sherman A1

(38,958 posts)
1. A couple of thoughts here
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 06:25 AM
Jan 2014

First, one wonders what was wrong with the P3 Orion and why it simply could not be upgraded with a new sensor suite or more efficient power plants or airframes replaced as needed? The aircraft was certainly well tested and able to do the job. But, then it wouldn't be a pretty new jet plane.

Secondly and understand no criticism here, I completely agree with the theme of your post(s) in that this is just another waste of money to the MIC. $25K jobs are a pretty low threshold and doesn't represent a living wage.

lastlib

(24,910 posts)
12. it's an easy number to do the math with.....
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:11 AM
Jan 2014

since it divides evenly into a billion. Perhaps 50,000 would work, but only gives you half the number. Or maybe we could do $10,000 for food stamps?

unhappycamper

(60,364 posts)
3. I've been using the 2914 discretionary budget pie chart
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 06:46 AM
Jan 2014


But the problem is normal people really have a hard time relating to a billion of anything.
 

RC

(25,592 posts)
17. I would like to see the equivalent pie charts for Canada, United Kingdom, and various European
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:54 AM
Jan 2014

and Scandinavian countries. And include China and Russia too. That would be telling about how much out of whack this county's priories are.

OK, how about this?


Or this:



World Military Spending
http://www.globalissues.org/article/75/world-military-spending#InContextUSMilitarySpendingVersusRestoftheWorld

caraher

(6,308 posts)
6. Arithmetic mistake
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:18 AM
Jan 2014

Your Zumwalt example is way off - that should be 224,000 jobs (5.6 billion/25,000 = 224,000)

And realistically, a $25,000 job worth having (i.e. with benefits) costs an employer a significant amount more than $25k

But in the other direction, not directing federal taxes into money pits like unneeded weapons can produce more jobs than you might calculate by dividing a program cost by the wages an employer may pay. After all, an employer will make more money than they pay a worker (otherwise they'd hire fewer people).

JHB

(37,414 posts)
7. I've informally used something I've dubbed "the BMI index"...
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:20 AM
Jan 2014

..."Better than Median Income", which is pretty much what you're doing except in increments of $50,000 (better than personal median income. Household median is a little over that, but not by enough to quibble over what is, essentially, a rule of thumb).

As in: "Cindy McCain's earrings have a BMI of 5. Five years of mere-mortal income for a pair of baubles."

 

another_liberal

(8,821 posts)
8. It will cost a million dollars each to keep our troops in Afghanistan until 2015.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:28 AM
Jan 2014

We have thirty thousand troops there. That equals thirty billion dollars, or one million two hundred thousand $25,000 jobs.

ReRe

(10,780 posts)
9. Seems like a good math exercise, but...
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:49 AM
Jan 2014

... $25,000/yr job is not a living wage. Why not jack that figure up to at least $50,000/yr?

For the $35 billion, you could only get 700,000 ($50,000 jobs).

So, how many do we have unemployed at this time? Let's say 5 million.

(5 million jobs x $50,000) = $250 billion

Where's that $250 billion bubble going to come from?

Keep in mind that the jobs would need to be secure jobs that would last, or we would end up in the same mess in the future with millions unemployed.

 

anasv

(225 posts)
10. OP is wrong on the jobs count
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 07:55 AM
Jan 2014

The average job costs the employer 2-3 times the salary - the employer's tax for Social Security, insurance premiums for mandatory workers' comp, HR, healthcare if that's provided, space, furniture, computers, lighting, heat, etc.

 

Scuba

(53,475 posts)
19. No, not 2-3 times. Many employers use 30% of salary for benefits.
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 09:52 AM
Jan 2014

Plant, computers, etc. are not employee costs.

Augiedog

(2,602 posts)
11. Perhaps
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:05 AM
Jan 2014

One billion dollars produces at least one billionaire who thinks he is a victim of a holocaust like onslaught by the progressive element of America. Poor him, who could have imagined that a billion dollars could bring such angst to such an admirable example of humanity. Maybe he can sign up for Obamacare and get counseling before his delusion of victimization overwhelms his clearly rational life.

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
15. Here's how I reference billions......
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:37 AM
Jan 2014
- The JP Morgan way, in trillions.......

K&R


JP Morgan Chase (JPM)

JP Morgan Chase has a derivative exposure of $70.151 Trillion dollars.
$70 Trillion is roughly the size of the entire world's economy.
The $1 Trillion dollar towers are double-stacked @ 930 feet (248 m).

JP Morgan is rumored to hold 50->80% of the copper market, and manipulated the market by massive purchases. JP Morgan (JPM) is also guilty of manipulating the silver market to make billions. In 2010 JP Morgan had 3 perfect trading quarters and only lost money on 8 days. Lawsuits on home foreclosures have been filed against JP Morgan. Aluminum price is manipulated by JP Morgan through large physical ownership of material and creating bottlenecks during transport. JP Morgan was among the banks involved in the seizure of $620 million in assets for alleged fraud linked to derivatives. JP Morgan got $25 billion taxpayer in bailout money. It has no intention of using the money to lend to customers, but instead will use it to drive out competition. The bank is also the largest owner of BP - the oil spill company. During the oil spill the bank said that the oil spill is good for the economy.

JP Morgan Chase also received a SECRET $391 billion dollar bailout from the Federal Reserve.

In 2012, JP Morgan (JPM) took a $2 billion loss on "Poorly Executed" Derivative Bets.

MORE

Blanks

(4,835 posts)
22. That's a good link...
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 02:11 PM
Jan 2014

A keeper - deserving of its own thread. Has a thread been started with a discussion of that link?

 

DeSwiss

(27,137 posts)
24. I've posted the link previously......
Thu Jan 30, 2014, 08:15 PM
Jan 2014

...in reference to JP Morgan threads but not as a thread subject itself.

- Be my guest!

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