As a technology writer, I try to balance healthy skepticism of new tools and products and platforms with the understanding that technology will evolve whether I like it or not. I don’t want to buy into the hype, but I think it’s also worth keeping an open (or at least curious) mind about movements that are growing in power and popularity.

Nowhere has this been harder for me than in the world of crypto. In recent years the crypto conversation has moved from a fringe topic dominated by a small segment of shit-stirring diehards, criminals, curious developers, and literal cryptographers to a mainstream obsession for many household names in tech, media, politics, art, and finance. Now, the true believers are adamant that the internet itself is going to transition and reorient itself around cryptographic tokens and blockchain technology (this change is referred to as Web3). This internet would be decentralized and far more immersive. The idea has captured the interest of countless technologists, like Mark Zuckerberg, who are looking to make a land grab in the event of a new era of the internet (this is partly where the metaverse comes into play). It’s all quite complicated, and if you don’t know what I’m talking about, here are a few explainers.

Given the energy and money (the biggest thing crypto has done so far is make a lot of people stupidly wealthy … and now they’re using that money) behind crypto projects and ambitions, I’m naturally interested in following this topic. But the conversation, I find, is ridiculously polarized. Ryan Broderick wrote about the crypto culture war this week, but it’s something I’ve been trying to parse for years now. I feel like I’m always speaking to either a zealous true crypto believer who will cede no ground, or somebody who basically thinks crypto is so morally bankrupt that even discussing it is odious.

So today I’m having a conversation with a true believer who I think can bring some nuance to the discussion. I’ve known Aaron Lammer for a while now—he is a journalist and musician, and just recently started working in the crypto world as the DeFi specialist for Radkl. He’s deep in the weeds on crypto, but he’s also good at calling bullshit on it—his podcast, Exit Scam, is an eight-part series dedicated to investigating the suspicious collapse of a Canadian crypto exchange.

The goal of this interview isn’t to render some final judgment on crypto (I plan to do a similar chat with a big-time skeptic, too). Nor is it to convince anyone to jump into a specific camp. In fact, Aaron makes the case that this ecosystem is too broad and chaotic to be a monolith. But I wanted to see if we could have a conversation . . . .