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progree

(11,463 posts)
Tue Nov 8, 2022, 09:37 PM Nov 2022

TIPS - Treasury Inflation Protection Bonds - how to figure out if a TIP is a good deal?

As we have heard time and time again from innumerable postings, I-Bonds are a great deal. But one is allowed only to buy $10,000 in a year (and an extra $5,000 if one applies their refund to buying them).

But since I've maxed out on my I-bond allotment, I've been looking at TIPs. I've always thought they sucked, e.g. whenever I see TIPs bond fund or ETF total returns (not just recently but pre-pandemic as well), they are pretty poor (this year they are negative for intermediate and long-term ones, because rising interest rates makes old bonds worth less).

So I will buy an individual bond and hold it until maturity.

First, I don't know how to buy a new one -- I have to wait for an auction date, and those are too far out in the future and I want to get my cash fund (a money market fund earning about 2.5%) invested ASAP in something higher.

Also, I want this for my Roth IRA for several reasons. I don't think I can have a Roth IRA at TreasuryDirect.

So I looked in the secondary market.

This Schwab article gives a very good explanation of the fundaments or TIPS.
https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/treasury-inflation-protected-securities-faqs-about-tips

But it doesn't explain how to know whether a particular deal available on the secondary market looks good.

I've done some mock purchase scenarios at Fidelity and Vanguard (where I do everything except click the final submit button), and I'm being asked to spend $19,975 for $10,000 face value of bonds on Friday 11/4/22 for this animal (of course these prices aren't good anymore, but for a snapshot in time):

CUSIP: 912810FD5 < - yes, it can be Googled

UNITED STATES TREAS BDS 3.62500% 04/15/2028 - it’s a 30 year TIPS bond

It was issued 4/15/98 (yes, last millennium) and matures 4/15/28 (5.4 years from now)

I don't know what happened in the early years in the bond's life, but for illustration, let's pretend inflation was 4% in the early years. Then the situation in the first 2 years looks like the first 5 lines of the table below.

Then after the ellipses (...) , the 10/15/22 and 11/4/22 information is from their data. The adjusted principal is the index ratio * 10,000.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/auctions/announcements-data-results/tips-cpi-data/

And what follows the ellipses is my spreadsheet projection of what the adjusted principal and interest payments would be if inflation continued at 4% for the remaining life of the bond.



The principal, which begins at $10,000, is adjusted upwards every 6 months according to the CPI-U. That's why it's called Adjusted Principal.

The final Adjusted Principal value, at the 4/15/28 maturity date, $22,724.41 is the amount one gets from the Treasury for it (remembering that the above table is assuming that inflation from here on is 4%). Plus one receives the final interest payment of $411.88.

One can't "cash out" earlier than the final maturity date. But one can sell it on the secondary market. What it will sell for should be close to the adjusted principal on that date. But the market is the market, and there is no guarantee what one will get for it on the secondary market.

The semi-annual interest payment is:
    coupon rate / 2 * adjusted principal
I've shown a couple examples in the above table.

So the question is, is $19,975 plus accrued interest a good price to pay for the stream of interest payments shown 4/15/23 and after, plus getting $22,724.41 at final maturity?

There ought to be something "out there" on at least one of the interwebs that would answer that question:

Enter the CUSIP of the security: __912810FD5__
Enter the assumed inflation rate from here onward to maturity: __4.0%__
Answer: your calculated rate of return is 5.9% (or whatever)


Anyway, 5.9% was what I got in my first approximation of this from the spreadsheet. So yes, it’s a good deal because one canNOT find a regular Treasury note with a 5.9% rate that matures in 5.4 years or 5 years or 6 years.

However, if I assumed inflation going forward averaged 2%, my rate of return would be about 3.9%. That is less than the 4+% interest rate that 5 year and 10 year regular treasuries offer now. So if I believed inflation over the next 5.4 years will average 2% or less, I would get a regular treasury note instead of a TIP.

But there doesn't appear to be any such calculator or anything that makes it simpler than the egghead-with-a-spreadsheet approach.

One shouldn't have to construct a spreadsheet. And then because a purchase, like on 11/4/22 for example, falls in-between interest payment dates, one has to fool around with adjusting for my spreadsheet to handle that somehow. I can think of reasonable ways to do that, but it is a little messy.

I used Excel's IRR function (internal rate of return) to get an approximation, but that function requires that the transactions be equally spaced apart. So I have more work to do.

But darn it, I'm sure I'm not the only one that has this question when examining a prospective TIP.

Then the accrued interest thing - the concept is simple: The previous owner owned the bond for the 20 days since the 10/15/22 interest payment (20 days between 10/15/22 and 11/4/22), but I, the new owner, gets the next interest payment, due 4/15/23, in its entirety and the previous owner gets nothing.

So the accrued interest thing is something I pay for 20 days of interest to compensate the previous owner.

SOME SMALL DETAILS

I'm buying much more than $10,000, but I'm showing the above table in units of $10,000. A bond is actually $1,000 face value but one must buy a minimum of say 60 of those for a minimum purchase of $60,000.

Probably will add some more in this section, but can't think of anything to add right now.


From Schwab, 10/20/22:
https://www.schwab.com/learn/story/treasury-inflation-protected-securities-faqs-about-tips

How can I compare TIPS to traditional Treasuries

Breakeven inflation rates. The breakeven rate is the difference between the yield of a nominal Treasury and the yield of a TIPS with a similar maturity. For TIPS investors, the breakeven rate can be considered a hurdle rate—it's what inflation would need to average over the life of the TIPS for it to outperform the nominal Treasury.

Breakeven rates are well off their recent highs. At 2.5%, the five-year TIPS breakeven rate is well off its recent high of 3.7% hit the past March. If the CPI were to average more than 2.5% over the next five years, the five-year TIPS would outperform a five-year nominal Treasury. (Likewise, if inflation averaged less than 2.5%, the nominal Treasury would outperform.) TIPS breakeven rates are relatively low given the high current rate of inflation ((meaning that TIPS are a good deal relative to regular treasuries at this point in time -Progree))


The above is all very fine and wonderful and all that, and it gives me a warm and fuzzy feeling, but it doesn't tell me what the rate of return is of a particular TIP on the secondary market.

Thanks for any ideas
4 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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TIPS - Treasury Inflation Protection Bonds - how to figure out if a TIP is a good deal? (Original Post) progree Nov 2022 OP
Aren't you really looking for market inefficiencies? Frasier Balzov Nov 2022 #1
Good observations. I just want to understand what the heck it is that I'm buying progree Nov 2022 #2
Finally bought it yesterday. Was in panic mode last night and early AM progree Nov 2022 #3
Inflation is cooling: last 4 months: CPI: 2.8%, Core CPI: 5.3%, PPI: 0.06%, Core PPI: 2.5% progree Nov 2022 #4

Frasier Balzov

(3,481 posts)
1. Aren't you really looking for market inefficiencies?
Tue Nov 8, 2022, 11:27 PM
Nov 2022

Whether the price of a TIPS on the secondary market looks "good" has to mean that you disagree with the rate of inflation which the consensus is imputing to it.

It's your opinion versus the opinion of everybody else who makes up the TIPS-investing public.

You'd be using your same sense of future inflation to decide whether to sell a TIPS prior to maturity in order to harvest an inefficiency which you believe has arisen in your favor while you were holding the bond.

Since I am bad at guessing and impatient about maturity dates, I have been sticking to zero coupon bills which right now are yielding upwards of 4.5% at the nine-month mark.

As they mature, I roll the proceeds into the same again, always gaining the benefit of the latest rates in a rising-rates environment. I make the general assumption that current rates will reflect the inflationary pressures being combated in real time by the Federal Reserve.

Since these are zero coupon instruments, I don't need to pay any specific earned interest to the last guy who owned them. The market price I pay is an expression of yield-to-maturity at face value. Period.

Save your guessing for when you think interest rates will cease being raised. That's when you should start rolling over your zero coupons as they mature into a long-term treasury bond ETF like TLT. That way, you'll hopefully lock in somewhere near the highest rate in the cycle, and participate in price appreciation if interest rates are actually brought lower from there.




progree

(11,463 posts)
2. Good observations. I just want to understand what the heck it is that I'm buying
Wed Nov 9, 2022, 06:04 AM
Nov 2022

Last edited Wed Nov 9, 2022, 06:15 PM - Edit history (4)

and what the expected rate of return is at different assumed inflation rates. It took me many many hours to understand the thing to get to the point where I'm at now. That's all I'm asking for - a tool or a methodology that will tell me what the rate of return will be at different inflation rates.

I'm not trying to find and exploit some "inefficiency" in the fixed income market. Nor am I trying to outsmart the TIPs market or other TIPs investors. I'm more at the dum-dee-dum stage where I'm simply trying to understand what it is I'm about to buy.

After some investing mistakes early in my career, such as buying limited oil and real estate partnerships from smooth-talking glad-handing white-shoe brokers, I've made it a point to understand what I'm buying. If I don't understand it, I don't buy it, no matter what the "market" or other people think about it. That's just life in the big city for me. Ain't gonna change any time soon.

I think we may be near the top of the interest rate cycle. I know that Powell has some more rate rises in store. But if there is a recession in 2023, rates will go down fast.

Anyway, I have chosen to lock in for about 5-7 years a rate of return of 5.9% -- if inflation averages 4% over the next 5.4 years, which I think it will be -- or 3.9% if inflation averages 2%. I doubt that it will average that low. At the higher end, If inflation averaged 6% it would return 8.0%.

(These rate-of-return estimates are approximate, I haven't fixed my spreadsheet to allow for investments in between semiannual payment dates, but I can "bracket" them within a narrow range. The accrued interest part isn't the problem with fixing the analysis.)

All investments are market investments where I'm choosing from many many options which one I think / guess / estimate is best for me. And keeping a diversified portfolio. You've chosen T-bills, I'm choosing something that will lock in today's return for longer. I've always been an "intermediate-term" guy when buying fixed rate stuff, and I've usually been glad that I picked intermediate-term over shorter-term investments. But then I've lived in a secular falling interest rate environment for almost my entire investing life. But, at least for a few more months, we're going to see somewhat higher interest rates - a good argument for your approach.

The accrued interest thing doesn't bother me in the least and is not a problem in my analysis. Its just part of the initial price I have to pay.

Thanks again, much appreciated

progree

(11,463 posts)
3. Finally bought it yesterday. Was in panic mode last night and early AM
Thu Nov 10, 2022, 11:56 AM
Nov 2022

because the big cash deduction to buy it showed up in my Vanguard Roth account, but the Treasury bond showed up as $0. At least there was a line for it. My Roth account dollar total nose-dived by the amount of the cash deduction, ditto my overall Vanguard.

Just now, about 1035 AM CT, Vanguard looks like the way it should look. But ugh, the T-bond dropped 0.21% already. But I don't care really, I fully expect to hold it 5.4 years to final maturity.

Another weirdo thing -- on one of my screens as I was purchasing it, it showed:

Dated date 04/15/1998
First coupon 10/15/1998
Last coupon 10/15/2027
Maturity 4/15/2028

HUH? If the last coupon is really 10/15/27 (payments are semi-annual), that means the bond over its lifetime will make only 59 interest payments (its a 30 year TIP bond). I thought and think bonds make a final payment at maturity. So I'm hoping this is a harmless mistake on Vanguard's part. I purchased it anyway because that even without the final interest payment that I think I should get, I would get a 5.5% rate of return (instead of about 5.9% if I do get the final coupon) -- all rate of return numbers assuming an average 4.0% inflation rate.

Maybe they just add the final interest payment onto the principal amount as a lump sum final payment at maturity.

I see the CPI report today came in a little tamer than expected --

CPI: October: +0.4%, 12 months: +7.7%
CORE CPI: October: +0.3%, 12 months: +6.3%

https://www.democraticunderground.com/111694580

Regular Treasury 5 year and 10 year notes' yields way down today, below 4%.

progree

(11,463 posts)
4. Inflation is cooling: last 4 months: CPI: 2.8%, Core CPI: 5.3%, PPI: 0.06%, Core PPI: 2.5%
Wed Nov 16, 2022, 08:36 AM
Nov 2022

Last edited Wed Nov 16, 2022, 03:53 PM - Edit history (1)

The title line are the last 4 months (October over June) AT AN ANNUALIZED RATE.

Note also the PPI generally leads the CPI. So that the PPI is 0.06% and Core PPI is 2.5% is a good harbinger for the next CPI report in about a month from now.

So plain old Treasuries might be a better deal than TIPS

(Currently the 5 year treasury is 3.9% and the 10 year treasury is 3.7%. When I bought my TIP on November 9, the 5 year plain old treasury opened at 4.3% and the 10 year at 4.2%. They closed at 3.9% and 3.8% respectively on a rather volatile day. The day after the election)

(As a rule of thumb, plain old treasuries do better than TIPS when inflation falls below expectations).

I still feel good about my TIPs purchase: Roughly speaking, it's rate of return (ROR) is inflation plus 1.9%. Matures in 5.4 years.

Per my spreadsheet:
At 0% inflation, its ROR is 1.86% plus inflation (1.86%).
At 2% inflation, its ROR is 1.90% plus inflation (3.90%).
At 4% inflation, its ROR is 1.93% plus inflation (5.93%).
At 6% inflation, its ROR is 1.97% plus inflation (7.97%).

Actually, for all inflation rates, ROR = 1.0186 * (1+inflation) - 1 ,
e.g. at 6% inflation, ROR = 1.0186*1.06 - 1 = 0.0797 = 7.97%

Had I not built the spreadsheet, I would never have figured that out, despite having read several articles about TIPS.

That 1.86% magic number varies with market conditions (i.e. with interest rate and inflation rate expectations), it's not some universal TIPs constant. (It also depends on time to maturity). Someone who buys this same TIPS today will have a different magic number than what I got on November 9..

=========================================
{#} CPI and PPI

CPI https://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0
Core CPI http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/CUSR0000SA0L1E
PPI http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/WPSFD4
Core PPI http://data.bls.gov/timeseries/WPSFD49116

The Core CPI is the CPI less food and energy
The Core PPI is the PPI less food, energy, and trade services
CPI = Consumer Price Index,
PPI = Producer Price Index aka wholesale prices

How the 4 month inflation figures were calculated:
https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=17358410

=========================================
{#} Treasury Interest Rates


10 Year Treasury - Market Yield on U.S. Treasury Securities at 10-Year Constant Maturity, Quoted on an Investment Basis (DGS10) (FRED)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS10

US Treasury Yield Curve (you can set the date)
https://www.ustreasuryyieldcurve.com/

Select interest rates -- scroll to the Treasury section
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases/h15/

10-year Treasury Constant Maturity Minus 2-Year Treasury Constant Maturity (FRED)
(This has gone negative before every recession. But not every negative occurance has preceded a recession. If I got that right)
https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/T10Y2Y

Latest quote and recent history graphs of individual treasuries
    1mo Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US1m
    3mo Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US3m
    2Y Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US2Y
    5Y Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US5Y
    10Y Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US10Y
    20Y Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US20y
    30Y Treasury https://www.cnbc.com/quotes/US30y

Yahoo Finance symbols for Treasury yields : 3mo: ^IRX, 5y: ^FVX, 10y: ^TNX, 30y: ^TYX (None for 2y)
https://finance.yahoo.com

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