Yeah...sure...that's the ticket.

Get in on the 401(k) scam early like I did (1985) so that in 2008 you too can watch the Bush/Cheney republican crook machine play their derivatives games, and other financial trickery, to rip-off 40% of the nest egg just before retirement.

I got suckered into the 401(k) scheme when I should have just put it in a savings account. I try not to think about it because then it makes me want to go postal and blow away republican bankers.

chasing too few profits, from too few companies. Also there is the fallacy that anyone can do it. Pure BS. It take a certain amount to live on. You can only begin investing at a certain income level. Live on 80% of what you make and save/invest the 20% ALL YOUR LIFE. But that denies the realities of life. People get life threatening illnesses, have costly divorces, face periods of unemployment, in other words life happens.

I have been a saver all my life and increasingly, I have been ripped off in my 401's and 403b's as they tend to charge me the highest for the share prices and sell them at their lowest-on top of the outrageous fees that drain what ever profit I did see. I frequently find that I do better on my own and feel better if I make my own choices. I have educated myself over the years in investments and for all that has happened, I am doing better than most. I am looking to retire from my current position and transition into 'retirement' doing a job that I will love.

I made the choice to go into the public sector employment. It was a substantial drop in pay but I thought at defined pension was worth it. The jury is still out on that decision, but our state pension is well funded. That is the basis. My investment are to supplement that base. Thanks, to the governments re-figuring the law-my SS was basically taken from me-even though I contributed enough quarters to have access to that. I have to make very informed choices at this stage in my life and a poor choice can mean living my old age in poverty. Consequently, 401's and 403's are not in the cards. I allocate less to them these days. The only reason I did well in those is because I was actively monitoring them the whole time I was in them.

What income level would that be?

to use Maslow's hierarchy of needs.

You have to cover the basics...food, clothing, shelter (elec, gas, a way to and from the job, basic phone, day care for wee ones of educational expenses for older kids). Once these needs are met for all in the household, all else is a want that you may or may not be able to provide. Depending on the financial situation, providing a few modest wants while setting money aside to invest can be done while you stick to an 80/20 rule. For example, my daughter grew up without cable so we could have Internet and she could have dance and later music lessons. For us the magic number was $26-28k in 2001-2002 in rural New Mexico. I started out small and anytime I got a pay raise, I upped my savings deduction. Staying out of debt as much as possible helps.

You can't invest if you cannot cover the basic needs. Investing is a necessary luxury.

incomes. I don't say anyone can do it. But I also would never say that NO ONE can do it.

but the odds favor those with a certain level of income and the blessing of good health, fewer children, good marriages, and steady jobs (this extracted from the list of top reasons for bankruptcy).

Five percent (your top estimate) of 20K is only $1,000. My experience is that most of those 20k jobs have no insurance. One good trip to the emergency room can wipe out a years worth of hard savings.

Most automatic deduction 401 or 403 require at least $50 per month and your money is tied up, leaving you only a cushion of $400 per year in savings account for real emergencies. All that scrimping and for what. Your 401/403 interest earned is eaten up by fees, so much so that the compounded interest on you passbook savings looks better. Even buying a silver coin per payday is proving to pay a better percentage and still have the liquidity someone of lesser means needs.

My point is...it is easier to save if you earn more and 401 and 403 are no longer the best vehicles, esp if you are on the low rung of the ladder. Been there done that, kept the raggedy tee shirt as a reminder so I would not be so quick to judge others percieved shortcomings.

does this work. You have to have no layoffs. No second jobs just to make do. And keep your funds consistently in the same place.

Make no mistake, I agree with you and would have done this very thing, if...

... If my jobs had not disappeared one right after the other.

... If I hadn't had to instead get low paying jobs just to pay the current already no frills bills, never mind saving.

... If I hadn't had to dip into my savings just to keep going.

...If the brokerage house I was with hadn't dropped me like a hot potato the minute my savings started to disappear.

Yeah, at 50 I'm starting over (again.) This time with a completely different plan. And no. I want nothing to do with company plans. I never qualified for them and never was able to stay anywhere long enough to make them worthwhile. I'll do a Roth IRA and my own brokerage account and my social security. That will have to be enough.

It would, indeed, be nice.

But, hey, you gotta start somewhere.

I haven't made more than $50k/year yet, but am out of debt (other than house) and employer-provided insurance. Maxed out my 401ks, used ROTH IRA's, and highly diversified (which is the common problem in many 401k's) - I have accounts which didn't lose money and some which dropped significantly, but have about 6 figs saved up in various retirement facilities. Which reminds me, I need to roll over an old 401k into a traditional IRA...

Keep up the great work.