the job?

,,,the words of Diane Ravitch. Did you read the article?

Article link: http://www.alternet.org/story/153858/5_biggest_lies_about_the_right-wing_corporate-backed_war_on_our_schools?paging=off

ponder her opinions about social classes and how hidden rules influence the teaching process.

Since you have three decades of teaching, please summarize for me how Payne's teaching methods are more effective than other methods.

Thanks

Please explain for example how Payne’s methods for teaching math in grades 1 through 5 are different from others.

For example, how are lesson plans different, how are exercises and homework different, etc.?

Has anyone tested Payne’s ideas and reported the results in refereed education journals?

IMO when political candidates ask for more money for education and promise it will improve test scores on math, etc. I ask them three questions starting with the observation that every second of every school day is already used:
1. What new material will be taught and what existing material discarded,
2. How will the process of teaching existing material be changed, and
3. Have the changes that produced the claimed improvements been verified as was done with the Head Start Impact Study?

If Payne’s methods are superior as you assert, then it should be easy to answer those simple questions.

Thanks again for sharing your experiences with the DU community and helping me understand your point.

that Payne's methods are superior.

Not the first time I've encountered all talk and no facts from those who tout this or that magic elixir for education but I keep looking and hoping.

Have a great evening.

Last edited Tue Sep 18, 2012, 10:31 PM - Edit history (1)

except turn them over to large corporations. You win. I'm deleting all my other posts on this thread so that my ignorance will not show to others. Thank you for helping me to see the light! It's so obvious now.

Maybe you should start by asking a more appropriate question.

questions I asked. That's my position.

Absent specific new material to be taught or new teaching methods to be used, I and many taxpaying voters have every reason to believe any new money for education will be wasted as it has been in the past.

I assume from our previous exchanges here on DU that you are or have been a teacher. I am not nor ever have taught K-12 classes.

I've stated my position as a taxpaying voter regarding more money for education.

Your post above disagrees with my two questions so please post your "more appropriate question."

Thanks so very much for discussing this topic with me

Address it and its surrounding issues and achievement will increase in schools serving our children living in poverty.

Ruby Payne is relevant because she has developed a program that helps educators understand poverty. But there is much work that needs to follow this.

In context of my two questions, I interpret your opinion is the effect of reducing poverty on test scores is greater than changing material taught or changing teaching methods.

Perhaps the quick and dirty stats I presented in #14 support your position, "Per cent free lunch was correlated about .65 with test scores." I posted my findings on the old DU more than once over several years.

I should have said negative correlation since as per cent free lunches increase, test scores go down.

I also repeat that I'm not aware of anyone else looking at other states for similar patterns.

Again, many thanks for discussing the issue with me.

We need to address poverty so we can improve children's lives and ensure they have better outcomes as adults.

Most of us teachers don't give a shit about test scores. But we care deeply for the children.

reading, writing, arithmetic, and other courses.

As in any organization, the owners set the goals and in education voters have spoken and it's test scores.

Teachers and their unions have had opportunities for decades to convince voters to replace test scores with other goals, perhaps some that you support, but nothing has changed.

Perhaps that's why politicians ask for more education dollars and promise to improve test scores.

Michelle Rhee is not responsible for the achievement gap, but has no method to close it, either. The problem is that she thinks she does, and is willing to sacrifice any and all teachers that don't conform to her unproven and unprovable belief system.

We've spent billions of dollars on Head Start and didn't the Head Start Impact Study conclude there were no proven benefits on academic scores?

Statistics record 63,329 doctorates in education were awarded during the past decade, I assume each requiring a dissertation.

People like me who are not K-12 educators expect those who do research in education to find ways to improve performance.

I support spending billions or whatever it takes to improve education but IMO the federal government has not succeeded nor does it promise success.

Why hasn't anyone found ways to improve science and math scores and other subject scores?

Pittsburgh Post Gazette Letter to the Editor by STEPHEN KRASHEN August 12, 2012

The writer is professor emeritus of the Rossier School of Education at the University of Southern California

Educators are always interested in improving teacher evaluation, and Anne Faigen's comments ("Evaluating Teachers Is Not So Easy," Aug. 5 Forum) are helpful. Her essay also, unfortunately, contributes to the impression that there is a crisis in teacher quality in the United States.

Our international test scores are low, we're often told, and the problem is bad teaching. Hence, we need better methods of evaluating teachers.

Our international test scores are unspectacular, but the reasons are not related to teacher quality (or parents or unions or schools of education): Middle-class American students who attend well-funded schools rank at the top of the world on international tests.

Read more: http://www.post-gazette.com/stories/opinion/letters/povertys-role-in-bad-us-test-scores-648669/#ixzz23QXmUw8x

world on international tests" prompts the questions I posed in #8:
1. What new material will be taught and what existing material discarded,
2. How will the process of teaching existing material be changed, and
3. Have the changes that produced the claimed improvements been verified as was done with the Head Start Impact Study?

IMO it's not just "well funded" that is the causal agent, it's how the funds are used.

A decade ago, I had test scores from every school in my state, per cent ethnic mix, per capita spending, and per cent free lunch stats.

Neither ethnic mix nor per capita spending had any significant correlation with test scores.

Per cent free lunch was correlated about .65 with test scores.

I don't claim anything for my quick and dirty study except to suggest state departments of education can easily replicate it.

I've not found anyone in the state education department interested in using its data to confirm or reject my findings.

In another post, I said we produced over 63 thousand new doctors of education in the last decade.

Why haven't they found the causal agent behind "Middle-class American students who attend well-funded schools rank at the top of the world on international tests"?

For the record, I am not a K-12 educator.

groups assuming your use of "class" is measured by income?

It can narrow the gap & improve children's lives.

I don't think very many people are calling for indiscriminately spending 'more'.

In chicago, what i read is:

1) for whatever reason, some of the money that *is* being spent isn't reaching low-income classrooms (no air-conditioning, books, paper, libraries, music/art classes v. selective enrollment schools which have these things)

2) money is being spent stupidly (more bucks for the head office while teachers are cut, more $ to consultants, testing companies, private education management companies, & other overhead)

Teachers in chicago are asking for spending on:

1) smaller classrooms
2) decent/reliable equipment/supplies/conditions
3) wider curriculum (art/music/libraries etc)
4) social support personnel (nurses/counselors etc)

and an end to spending directed at destabilizing schools.

the relationship between class & educational achievement holds across time & across cultures. however, it's also clear that when well-targeted money is put into closing that gap, it has results (as the us did post ww2 -- the biggest leap in educational achievement in our history -- coincidental with a rise in jobs and wages).

money.

If Class is the cause, then how can spending money be a wise choice?

I can't follow that line of reasoning.

as your colors are clear.

The only thing that surprised me about this was that he hadn't done it a long time ago.

Cosby came here a couple years ago for a motivational speech. He made several people in the audience so mad they got up and walked out. According to my friend who was there, he was finger pointing at parents and didn't offer any solutions. When a parent in the audience asked him a question, he was rude and accused her of neglecting her own kids. It sounded like a nasty scene.