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RandySF

(70,227 posts)
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:54 AM Sep 2012

It occurs to me what American schools really need to do.

I like to call my first-grade son is a genius, but I know it's probably not true. To be honest, he is already doing second grade math, but he needs a LOT of work keeping up in language arts. He got great help in language arts, but he was so sharp that last year, he would finish with math work before everyone else and was assigned the task of watering plants. I knew a girl in his kindergarten class who was not only at the top of math, but started reading at the 3rd grade level. As a matter of fact, if you talked to her, you would swear she was 10, not 6. She would get so obviously bored in class that the teacher cited her for disciplinary issues a number of times. Despite her parents' pleas, they refused to promote her to the 2nd grade. There was a third child, a son of Chinese immigrants, was stuck in ESL even though he was bright and fluent in English. And resources were wasted on him that could have gone to a child who really needed the help.

If public schools have a problem, I think it is that we try to impose a one-size-fits all on every school, classroom and child. At my son's new school, he continues to get the help he needs in language arts, but he is able to move on in math without waited for anyone to catch up. He and his classmates are closely tracked to see where they need help and teachers are able to break the kids down into groups and focus on those areas. So we need two things: To help schools become more flexible with different groups of students and give them the funding to do so.

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It occurs to me what American schools really need to do. (Original Post) RandySF Sep 2012 OP
individualized education costs money phantom power Sep 2012 #1
I love the "Cargo Cult" fantasies! bread_and_roses Sep 2012 #3
i think people know that, but the want of individualization is a good stick to beat up educators HiPointDem Sep 2012 #4
Right, and lots of attention. Hand in hand, actually. elleng Sep 2012 #6
the solution already exists.... mike_c Sep 2012 #2
We tried montessori for my daughter noamnety Sep 2012 #5
my daughter's experience was just the opposite.... mike_c Sep 2012 #7
That's the experience I was sure we'd have. noamnety Sep 2012 #8
Good luck with that. Teachers, you know, those worthless public employees MichiganVote Sep 2012 #9
Speaking of one-size-fits all, LWolf Sep 2012 #10

phantom power

(25,966 posts)
1. individualized education costs money
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 10:59 AM
Sep 2012

Until America comes to grips with the fact that you get what you pay for, and stops indulging in cargo-cult fantasies about how it would all just magically get better if we privatized it, a lot of things that ought to happen won't happen.

bread_and_roses

(6,335 posts)
3. I love the "Cargo Cult" fantasies!
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:10 AM
Sep 2012

Too perfect. And you are exactly right. Would just add that even talking about good educational outcomes is crazy unless the unconscionable poverty in which so many of our children live is addressed. The "Cargo Cult" fantasy there is that busting teachers unions will somehow make the issues generated by poverty and deprivation all disappear.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
4. i think people know that, but the want of individualization is a good stick to beat up educators
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 12:12 PM
Sep 2012

with.

mike_c

(36,327 posts)
2. the solution already exists....
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 11:07 AM
Sep 2012

Montessori. I realize that it's rarely applied in public schools, but it's still the solution you're seeking, I think.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
5. We tried montessori for my daughter
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 12:42 PM
Sep 2012

but it was a small train wreck. Granted, it was only kindergarten, but it was discouraging. She already know how to read before entering kindergarten. When I went to parent teacher conferences at thanksgiving, they told me she was a little slow and maybe needed remedial classes. I told them I didn't think so, they said I might be in denial about her low intelligence. All the other kids were mostly through their alphabets, they told me, but my daughter had only learned 6 letters.

?! I told them she knew all the letters and could read, I had to have a meeting with the principal, who first tried to convince me that my kid had probably just memorized the story books I read to her and was faking it. She pulled her out of class, grabbed a random book off her shelf, and had my kid read it - which she did with no problem.

Even though it was self-paced, it was still not individualized. You couldn't "pass" a letter unless you traced it with your finger, did a bunch of other crap that was beneath her skill level. So she was still bored and just didn't do the work because she knew for her it had no value. So at the age of 5, I had to have a heart to heart talk with her about the need to just go through the motions to suck up, because the school was too rigid to let her just jump to her own level.

I was not happy that it was so "independent" that the teacher never caught on in 3 months that my kid was reading several grades above her age, not several years below.

mike_c

(36,327 posts)
7. my daughter's experience was just the opposite....
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 01:47 PM
Sep 2012

She did so well in Montessori school that when she topped out the available Montessori school grades in our community, she proceeded to home school almost entirely self directed through all but about 5 months of public high school (which she tried but rejected). Montessori prepared her to take responsibility for her own home schooling. It was pretty amazing. She was well prepared for college and grad school.

 

noamnety

(20,234 posts)
8. That's the experience I was sure we'd have.
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 05:34 PM
Sep 2012

I don't think our experience invalidates the Montessori method at all, but it did bring home to me the idea that really there is no one solution to everyone's educational style or needs, even if the theory behind one method seems great.

 

MichiganVote

(21,086 posts)
9. Good luck with that. Teachers, you know, those worthless public employees
Tue Sep 25, 2012, 08:08 PM
Sep 2012

have been telling the very parents, the public who hates them, this same scenario for years. The public wants a cadillac school system on chevrolet funds. And since they rationally cannot get it, they crap on the very people who are for kids, not against them.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
10. Speaking of one-size-fits all,
Wed Sep 26, 2012, 07:21 AM
Sep 2012

it's right there in your post. What is "second grade" math, "3rd grade level," etc., if not a one-size-fits all label?

Grade levels are based on age. Learning expectations for that age are based on a wide variety of factors. Sometimes when you hear someone say "__th grade reading level," it's based on the grade level book in an adopted curriculum. In that case, the publisher, with some influence from CA and TX, decided what constitutes "grade level reading."

Sometimes it's based on some purchased program that assigns a level; like Accelerated Reader. The number of people who will run around saying things like "my 2nd grader reads at a 9th grade level" amaze me, since when asked if their child could actually read well enough to process high-school level material, they blink and say, "Well, of course not!"

It could be based on state standards, which, until CCSS, were different in every state. That's the assumption by tptb that everyone at a "grade level" can learn the same amount at the same pace. While there is a constant mantra to "allow more time" when necessary, time is one thing that we cannot manufacture more of.

That said, I'm glad that you found a school that is differentiating for your child. To help schools become more flexible with different groups, I suggest that we first end the standards and accountability movement that pressures schools to focus so narrowly on "grade level" standards and tests.

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