Public education produced highly educated young adults
responsible for 60 years of progress and technical revolution.

How about scrapping the detractors of Public Education and instead
strengthen it?

that take taxpayer money. Even the reformers don't go around and claim they are "public" schools anymore.

That old lie has been tossed into the garbage like just everything else the reformers spew.

Private schools did not want them because they were too learning-disabled. It was hard enough to get public schools to get them a decent education, but at least, they did not have a choice. They had to take them even if it probably costed more for them to teach my kids.

But they are also a success story from the public school system: my oldest is studying toward a master in Chinese language. The youngest one is a Freshman in college. Without public schools, be sure this would never have happened.

This does not mean it was easy and parents should not be involved. They should be. It is their kids and parents normally know them well, but, with a system like yours, my kids would never have succeeded.

Semi-independent entities in your post (which was very well written and thought out) need to be defined better. I don't want the Exxon-Mobile School for rich kids set up - that's just more of the same only you seem to be somewhat? advocating that sort of model.

I think we need entrance and exit exams for high school. Some kids aren't designed for academics. This is the German model and it seems to work pretty well. In the instances where those kids who are poor, but have the drive to excel academically but simply haven't been prepared properly or come from disadvantaged backgrounds a public funding system should be developed for tutoring them to succeed - preferably staffed by teachers themselves which will earn them extra pay.

This should be funded publicly - and in order to do that we're going to have to re-prioritize spending in this country away from the military and other programs to things which will more adequately safeguard our economic future.

Through my error I led people in the wrong direction. Yes, scrap the current public education model and build a new one -- semi-independent, similar to the EPA on a state level (where it belongs Constitutionally).

throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

Scrap the standards and accountability movement. Scrap the privatization. Scrap high-stakes testing. Scrap the influence and control of public education given to private interests.

Put REAL PUBLIC educators in charge of public education. Start with the Secretary of Education, and every state-level version of the same. Public superintendents need to be educators.

We can create a vibrant, rich, inclusive, flexible, system. Get the obstacles out of the way and let us get to work.

That's what you are advocating; I'm just not sure how you are going to fund your proposals, guarantee equal access to equally high quality education, and oversee the system for corruption if there is no more public education.

and he is on the national level.

That's where we start. We need to work to dump Duncan.

i won`t bother with the whole idea local control over schools. i won`t bother with the fact that the republicans and democrats have made it their quest to get rid of public schools.i could go on but i have better things to do but..... last but not least

this country was built by people who went to public schools and so far they did a pretty good job of it.

for just because "our team's" powers that be say it should be. I no longer consider myself a Democrat (left wing of the Republicrat party). And since I know half the people here can barely read, I'm sure as hell ain't no Republican. I hate both parties.

Our education system is completely effed up and needs to be rebuilt from the ground up.

Unfortunately, any change means putting it in the hands of the money men. So it can only change for the worse.

Real change will involve turning up at meetings, knocking on doors, pushing away from the computer, and even then would take 20 years. Grassroots is the only way.

You up for it? Me neither.

you are against democracy, period.

It is a LIE to say it is broken "beyond repair." Reformers are trying to destroy it on purpose.

If you scrap it............only rich kids will get an education!!

I am an advocate for public education, but sometimes when a system is irrevocably malfunctioning, it is best to start over. When I said education should be a semi-independent agency, I still meant a government-run institution, but it should be based on the way the EPA is run. Presently, education being at the mercy of everyone whether they know anything about education or not, is a soup with too many chefs; as a result, teachers are not professionals but merely the modern laborers.

Actually it's the politicians being paid by the private education lobby that are probably destroying education, which emphasizes my point that education needs to be somewhat isolated from politics and misinformation.

Funding. Find a source other than taxpayers and you can remove education from politics. Until then, we're stuck in this relationship.

Many kids should be left behind just because they have some special file somewhere?!

You're right: you sound like a Republican. I am proud of my students, and I am smart enough to know that I cannot know what they'll be doing ten or twenty years from now. We teachers are notoriously inept at picking who'll be successful and who won't be ten years out or twenty years out, and I, for one, won't allow my students to be dropped or taught in an inferior manner just because someone has decided that they're not worth the money to educate.

I'm really glad you retired. You shouldn't work with students with that attitude.

Picking and choosing is exactly what I was against. It was not my job to decide who should pass or fail, that's really up to the students. I was a teacher who taught the subject matter in the most interesting way I knew how, made sure they had everything they needed to get whatever grade they cared to work for, and then tested them on the material. It was of no concern of mine, nor should it be of any teacher, what a student may or may not do 20 years down the road. The job of a teacher is to remain objective and not have any favorites. My grades were totally objective; namely, how well did the student learn what they were taught.

Also, I mentioned that students with special needs, behavioral or cognitive, need special teaching, whether it is higher expectations for the gifted or pared down basics for the cognitively impaired; all I said was that they shouldn't all be in the same class. By pointing out the spending of large amounts of money in trying to save a few students, I was showing how the business model in education doesn't apply, but, yet, we as teachers are told that's the direction education should follow, justifying faulty evaluations and merit pay. People need to be willing to spend (be taxed) based on what they want out of education and stop expecting teachers to do the impossible. But right now we are not serving the gifted, average, or problem student very well, and we're spending a lot of money doing it, and I stand by my claim that we could get the same results we are getting now by spending a lot less money.

I was a gifted kid put in mixed ability classes, and I ended up learning more by helping teach my fellow students than I did in honors classes that were all taught on a supposedly higher level (barring two that were taught as college classes in high school). I use Kagan strategies with my students and try to make sure that my groups are mixed enough that those further along in understanding can help those who aren't. That helps everyone.

As for objective grades, there's no such thing. There is no way that every single assessment you gave was entirely objective, standardized, and unbiased, let alone that you graded all of them that way. We all do our best, but we're all biased, and grades are always biased in some way.

The fact that your gifted classes didn't help you only shows the waste of money spent on that program in your school. But gifted students should be driven harder, and that is much easier and more effective in a leveled class with good instructors. Also, the fact that you feel you cannot create a curriculum with an objective grading component says a lot. Sure no grade will reflect the individual problems in each student; that's impossible. All we can do is teach the subject as well as we can and create objective tests to see what the student has or hasn't learned. If students are given all they need to receive 100% on a test, but they can only answer 80% of the questions, that is as objective a grade as is possible. If you don't try for objective grading because nothing is perfect, then you are the one who is playing god with their grades.

My point is that they're still biased. There's no way to entirely eliminate bias in grading, which you admit in that post and then act as if you didn't. Odd, that. I teach English and Spanish, and trust me, grading writing, even with rubrics, is still subjective. Even the College Board admits that and allows students to request a re-reading of their essays which, studies show, almost always results in a higher score.

As for my gifted classes not helping, I beg to differ, though I suppose I should have graduated valedictorian of my college class and not salutatorian with my double major and double minor. It is very possible to push gifted kids in mixed classes, and it's something I do all the time. In tiered assessments, it is important to always offer the most difficult option and push the gifted kids to choose that one, something I do.

Honestly, with your biases against non-gifted students and clinging to outmoded teaching ideals many studies have proven wrong, I am glad that you are posting on a message board and not working with my students, many of whom you'd leave behind.

You have lots of talking points that virtually no successful and experienced teacher would suggest.

The "thing" you are getting for your money is "thinking" and "a love of learning"; not restricted by $'s. An education is priceless. The system is NOT broken. In some ways, the American system sets the standard for the world. In other ways, we need to improve.

There is no reason to buy into the stupid propaganda of those who want to privatize everything: schools, prisons, hospitals, etc. so that they can profit on everything regardless of the impact on real people.

Who cares what you get for your money; your precious money...think about it.

In no law is this a standard for the existence or maintenance of public education. So that's the first premise in your treatise you can throw out.

The next is your assumption that GE teachers are responsible for lesson plans for special needs kids in GE classes. Get real. GE teachers do not plan lessons around these kids. Their IEP plan drives class participation, assignment/test requirements. not the GE teachers. Most of the GE teachers require greater guidance that is all. If you didn't ask for it, then the fault is not in education or in the kids.

Next up, credit retrieval. True, some students do require this and true-there is no enough data to show whether or not this is an adequate system. But some kids move around-a lot. They have lousy study habits, they lack motivation in some cases and in others, they have not attained the skills through no fault of their own. Online credit retrieval programs are quite rigorous as is the GED.

Now I have little quarrel with the idea that parental and student responsibility are sorely lacking when it comes to education. But I fail to see where credit retrieval programs, low motivation and what all should damn all kids to a lifetime of ignorance. Public education is NOT a total failure and should not be treated as such.

Some students fail. Its a fact of life. We don't want that but it happens.

I teach in a large urban high school (3600+ enrollment) with 68% Hispanic, 7% Black, 24% White, and a smattering of Polynesian and Asian students. 85% qualify for free or reduced lunches.

158 are homeless. 200+ are HIV Positive. 1000+ work 40 hours a week outside of school. We spend about $9000 per student per year total budget, somewhat below the national average.

I have a double BA in English and Economics, and a MAEd in Adult and Distance Education. I went to high school here in the late 60s when it was still 100% White segregated.

Okay, now:
All research shows that all students benefit from heterogeneous grouping, what you call inclusion classes. All of my classes are remedial and inclusion. I have a special education teacher, not an aide, every period, as well as a sign language translator for my class with 9 deaf students. We follow the IEP, and I design instruction to deliver the state content standards. I have a lifetime average of 98% of my students passing state accountability tests, which are NOT modified, except for oral administration for some.

My classes are lively, and my students learn the value of additional training after high school, whether academic or vocational. I live in the same neighborhood in which I teach, and I see dozens of my more than 7000 former students all the time. All treat me well, and not one has ever thanked me for teaching any particular content. What they thanked me for was allowing them true success, a desire to do more, and the method to do it.

Students fail if they are absent more than 10 times in a class. Period. They can start the class over again in an online environment. It is against the law in Texas to give a grade not earned, so no one will ask you to do that - it could cost them their credential. I have a pass rate of about 85% in the course, 98% on state tests, which makes sense, because the state tests are really quite minimal in their expectations.

We teach and learn using every tool in the box - reading, writing, listening, student presentations, foldables, flash cards, games, interactive notebooks, plays, movies, outside reading, the whole gamut, because that's what it takes to reach every student.

I open every year with the value of doing things right. If a heart surgeon opens up your chest and fixes the damage there, and closes you up, and the janitor did a poor job of cleaning the suite, and you get an infection and die, what was the value of the surgeon's work? Zero. Society is teamwork, hardly perfect, and I believe janitors are underpaid and underappreciated, but anything we do only has value in the context of everyone benefiting from it.

I teach from 7:15 to 3:15, I never take home anything to grade, nor do I spend family time planning my lessons or doing other things related to school. If you give assignments that are incredibly complex and time-consuming to grade, that's your fault, and you've missed the benefits of immediate feedback. If you need to prepare materials for tomorrow, the students are happy to help - they LIKE being a part of things, and it gives them an appreciation and understanding of how things work, which is not wishing magically for them to happen.

In short, I enjoy my job and my students, and I believe they enjoy the class and learn something, content being the least important of all. Sorry you had a bad time. That's why I'm not retiring - I'm having fun.

Many teachers need to learn the art of time management.

However, you teach at the secondary level. The elementary environment is extremely different than what you're describing.

part of school, don't belong to gangs, can't leave campus during lunch in a car to buy/sell drugs, have sex, jump a new member in, or just leave without coming back for the rest of the day.

They're much smaller - 600 to 800 students per campus.

In addition, they have a teacher-student ratio that's enforced by law at 1-22, whereas the typical load for secondary teachers here is 180 students in 6 sections of students.

As a result, nearly every elementary school in our district is recognized or exemplary, while 1 high school is acceptable and the others are not.

Before the powers that be got stingier, we used to bus our sophomore students over to an elementary school to read books of their own design and authorship to the elementary kids. The books had to teach a story with a moral, an original story. And I would warn those 10th graders to check their spelling especially, because they would hate to get called down by a second grader. Inevitably, at least one would, and lesson learned. The little kids would also read to us their own books - I remember the year they wrote on tornadoes specifically; I learned more about tornadoes than I had ever known.

But then somebody downtown decided that spending money on gas and drivers for mere education was a bad idea.

So yeah, elementary is different - that's why they're a different credential. In our district, the average elementary teacher has 14 years of experience. At the high school level, it's approaching 8.

are based on several false stereotypes about elementary schools and young children.

with 6 other secondary teachers and 7 elementary teachers once a week. I get my information from them. I get my statistics on class sizes from the district office here, as well as enrollment totals.

The book exercise is first person experience.

DO your elementary kids drive so that they can leave campus during lunch? During those outages, do they drink, do drugs, have sex, travel with their gang buddies or just generally screw up?

I'd be happy to hear details of why you think I'm lying.

My intention is not to disrespect. I would never do that.

First of all, class sizes may be capped where you are, but that isn't necessarily true elsewhere. I know elementary teachers whose class sizes exceed thirty.

Also, young children do not necessarily come to primary school loving learning. Many teachers work with them to try to instill a love of learning. Planning for activities and exercises that accomplish this frequently requires a great deal of time and effort to plan, prepare, and assess. Therefore, many elementary teachers find themselves working beyond the hours they are contracted for. They aren't necessarily poor managers of time. They are implementing something complex, and that itself takes time. In your experiences with elementary students, those which exhibit a love of learning have a great teacher to thank. Whether this "teacher" is a supportive parent, a classroom teacher, or someone else, they have helped to instill a love of learning within the child.

Just because a teacher chooses to use a complex assessment tool doesn't mean that they aren't receiving immediate feedback. In fact, many of these so-called complex tools include means to generate immediate feedback.

Although you may strive to impart a valuation of hard work within your students and you find that content knowledge is not your first and only priority, elementary teachers must try to find balance between the two. Elementary level content knowledge is carried with individuals well into adult life and forms the basis for the information that secondary teachers teach.

Also, there is increasing research suggesting that certain forms of homogeneous grouping can benefit certain student populations. Heterogeneous grouping does offer social benefit and can also help certain populations of students academically, one must realize the power of being able to really focus on groups of students who are at similar performance levels. However, some degree of flexibility must be observed to ensure that students are being served at levels of understanding which are appropriate for them.

While elementary students may not typically exhibit the same types of problematic behavior that you have described in your posts, they may be the younger sibling of one of the students that do exhibit those behaviors. Many elementary kids see these things happening at home. Many are hungry, homeless, and/or extremely transient. These things detract from academics and these situations are intensely negative for the children. These are issues that are present in the elementary classroom, and I don't know of one elementary teacher who wouldn't do whatever necessary to make that child feel comfortable, at ease, and loved at school.

It's truly great that you have found great success and a sense of fulfillment in your job. Elementary teachers also find success and fulfillment in their jobs, but the challenges they face are different than what you described. Neither group is working harder or less than the other.

They're different groups, certainly.

In Texas, where I am, K-4 are capped at 22 students per class.

When I was talking about assessment that takes unduly long, I meant because the grading required was time-consuming and unnecessarily, such as a new teacher last year who seemed to feel that she needed fill in the blank AND short answers AND an essay AND some multiple choice, often in excess of 150 questions per test. The multiple choice goes to the scantron, of course, but the other 125 or so must be hand-graded across 180 students, delaying needed feedback to students.

I didn't mean to blur the line between complex information obtained from evaluations and evaluations that are just too long, mechanically complicated or otherwise tedious to the point of interfering with results. I agree with you completely that much information can be gathered with a rather straightforward tool.

The other big difference is that I don't have to assist students in tying their shoes or going to the bathroom, just to name two. (Which is good; as a clumsy child, I couldn't tie my own shoes until junior high nor ride a bike nor skate.)

My fondest wish is for every teacher to find success and fulfillment. I began teaching because of the many terrific teachers I had, who didn't quit on a socially awkward, physically clumsy, shy to the point of tears, poverty background kid from the bus side of town.

Best wishes to you.

Most of what you posted comes straight out of AIE and other far right wing think tanks.

I don't believe for a second you were ever a teacher.

I have the same impression.

originated in America. We set an example to the world by educating our citizens.

This predates the constitution.
In an effort to consolidate schools and make education mandatory, Congress enacted the Land Ordinance of 1785. This ordinance set aside what was known as Section Sixteen in every township in the new Western Territory for the maintenance of public schools. It also allotted section number 29 for the purpose of religion and no more than two townships for a University. The separation of church and state was visible by now with the two entities being in different areas. Public schools were organized to corral the best minds for training for public leadership.

Two years later came the Northwest Ordinance of 1787. This ordinance provided land in the Great Lakes and Ohio Valley regions for settlement. (It eventually broke into five states: Michigan, Indiana, Wisconsin, Ohio, and Illinois). Of particular interest is Article 3 of the ordinance, which reads in part:

Religion, morality, and knowledge being necessary to good
government and the happiness of mankind, schools and the
means of education shall forever be encouraged.
The point of this document is that education is necessary to become a good citizen and to have a strong government. Children will be encouraged to go to school, however religion is not specifically to be part of the curriculum. Schools then began to form everywhere over the next one-hundred plus years. Instead of township appointed teachers, they were subsidized to an extent by the government, and the rest by state taxes. Schools began teaching more that just religion, reading, and spelling. Sciences were part of the new curriculum. Thus, the federal government was able to create a public school system furnished to all children, especially in the new and ever growing West.
http://www.ux1.eiu.edu/~cfrnb/ord17857.html

Thanks!

The National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) data show that American schools with a poverty rate of 10% or less are the best performing schools in the world. This would seem to indicate that improving public schools would follow a reduction in poverty rates. We instead have followed policies that have increased poverty, underfunded schools with the greatest needs, and endured an attack by the oligarchy on our profession. The reformers have scant and questionable data to back their reforms. If we cared about our kids we would implement policies that research shows to reliably improve their outcomes, not slash public funding by waging a marketing campaign against public education and teaching professionals. Educate yourself.

http://nces.ed.gov/programs/coe/analysis/2010-section3a1.asp

Odd that you didn't give a single reason to scrap public education. Sure there are problems with public education and perhaps you pointed some out. But, you failed to show where you would separate classes based on ability. Some students have special needs. But, there is a huge grey area, how do you propose to deal with that?

Also you seem kind of mean. Are you seriously against redeeming students via credit recovery? Do you seriously believe a student that takes a test repeatedly doesn't learn anything? I don't know about you but, I would rather a student walk away with a diploma than not.

Perhaps you could write another piece with solutions to the problems included rather than suggesting to bulldoze the system and leave poor and middle class students to fend for themselves.

The system isn't brokeN. Not at all.

What you suggest is the return to feudalism, where the ignorant mob have not a clue about their state as servants to the aristocracy.

You have a bright future as a paid political consultant. Oh. And welcome to DU, Left Turn Only.