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OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 11:19 AM Sep 2023

vox: There is no end to disaster season anymore

There is no end to disaster season anymore
An extraordinary autumn is expected after a record-smashing summer.

By Rebecca Leber@rebleberrebecca.leber@vox.com Sep 13, 2023, 6:30am EDT

Rebecca Leber is a senior reporter covering climate change for Vox. She was previously an environmental reporter at Mother Jones, Grist, and the New Republic. Rebecca also serves on the board of the Society of Environmental Journalists.

The wave of unusual disasters this summer now includes Hurricane Lee, a storm that swelled from Category 1 to Category 5 in just 24 hours as it barreled toward Canada. It’s a prime example of rapid intensification made worse by warming ocean temperatures.

It will add to what’s already been an exceptional year of extreme weather. The US has set a new record for the number of billion-dollar disasters in a year — 23 so far — in its history, according to the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (NOAA). And this doesn’t even include the costs from Tropical Storm Hilary in California or from the ongoing drought in the South and Midwest, because those costs have yet to be fully calculated.

“Seemingly no part of the country has been left unscathed,” Ko Barrett, NOAA’s climate adviser, told Vox.

Globally, it’s a similar picture. The European Union’s Copernicus Climate Change Service recently determined that it’s been the hottest summer since records began, beating the last record set in 2019 by a significant margin. The group reported that both July and August reached global average temperatures around 1.5 degrees Celsius warmer than preindustrial times. These are the same average temperature increases that scientists have warned will mean irreversible, widespread crises around the planet.

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vox: There is no end to disaster season anymore (Original Post) OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 OP
Just the beginning. Think. Again. Sep 2023 #1
Merely the latest chapter OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #2
The article is about... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #3
The weather disasters have been happening for decades (eg. Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy) OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #4
Wrong... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #5
What you are saying is... this is merely the latest chapter OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #6
Nope... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #7
That's like picking up a book, turning to Chapter 5 and proclaiming it "the beginning" OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #8
Nope again... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #10
You've left out a major part of the story OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #12
Nope... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #13
"To say we're not at the beginning, means you believe ..." OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #14
The severe disasters... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #15
And how do you know that? OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #16
sigh... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #17
You keep saying this is "Just the beginning." OKIsItJustMe Sep 2023 #18
Using your logic... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #19
I absolutely understand and agree with you TA. Brenda Sep 2023 #9
Thank you... Think. Again. Sep 2023 #11

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
2. Merely the latest chapter
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 12:12 PM
Sep 2023

Hansen et al. (1981): Climate impact of increasing atmospheric carbon dioxide

Summary. The global temperature rose by 0.2°C between the middle 1960’s and 1980, yielding a warming of 0.4°C in the past century. This temperature increase is consistent with the calculated greenhouse effect due to measured increases of atmospheric carbon dioxide. Variations of volcanic aerosols and possibly solar luminosity appear to be primary causes of observed fluctuations about the mean trend of increasing temperature. It is shown that the anthropogenic carbon dioxide warming should emerge from the noise level of natural climate variability by the end of the century, and there is a high probability of warming in the 1980’s. Potential effects on climate in the 21st century include the creation of drought-prone regions in North America and central Asia as part of a shifting of climatic zones, erosion of the West Antarctic ice sheet with a consequent worldwide rise in sea level, and opening of the fabled Northwest Passage.


Hansen, J.E., and S. Lebedeff, 1987: Global trends of measured surface air temperature. J. Geophys. Res., 92, 13345-13372, doi:10.1029/JD092iD11p13345.
Abstract
We analyze surface air temperature data from available meteorological stations with principal focus on the period 1880–1985. The temperature changes at mid- and high latitude stations separated by less than 1000 km are shown to be highly correlated; at low latitudes the correlation falls off more rapidly with distance for nearby stations. We combine the station data in a way which is designed to provide accurate long-term variations. Error estimates are based in part on studies of how accurately the actual station distributions are able to reproduce temperature change in a global data set produced by a three-dimensional general circulation model with realistic variability. We find that meaningful global temperature change can be obtained for the past century, despite the fact that the meteorological stations are confined mainly to continental and island locations. The results indicate a global warming of about 0.5°–0.7°C in the past century, with warming of similar magnitude in both hemispheres; the northern hemisphere result is similar to that found by several other investigators. A strong warming trend between 1965 and 1980 raised the global mean temperature in 1980 and 1981 to the highest level in the period of instrumental records. The warm period in recent years differs qualitatively from the earlier warm period centered about 1940; the earlier warming was focused at high northern latitudes, while the recent warming is more global. We present selected graphs and maps of the temperature change in each of the eight latitude zones. A computer tape of the derived regional and global temperature changes is available from the authors.


Hansen, J., and S. Lebedeff, 1988: Global surface air temperatures: Update through 1987. Geophys. Res. Lett., 15, 323-326, doi:10.1029/GL015i004p00323.
Abstract
Data from meteorological stations show that surface air temperatures in the 1980s are the warmest in the history of instrumental records. The four warmest years on record are all in the 1980s, with the warmest years in our analysis being 1981 and 1987. The rate of warming between the mid 1960s and the present is higher than that which occurred in the previous period of rapid warming between the 1880s and 1940.


Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
3. The article is about...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 12:34 PM
Sep 2023

...the weather "disasters" that are beginning to be caused by climate change.

Yes, CO2 emissions have been warming the globe for decades, but what we are seeing is just the beginning of ever-increasing extreme weather events that are just beginning to cause major harm.

Certainly not "merely" anything.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
4. The weather disasters have been happening for decades (eg. Hurricane Katrina, Superstorm Sandy)
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 12:40 PM
Sep 2023

The change is that now scientists are less reticent about linking them to ongoing “Climate Change”

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
5. Wrong...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 12:51 PM
Sep 2023

...the weather disasters are steadily getting more extreme and more frequent.

I didn't realize you are such a climate denialist.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
6. What you are saying is... this is merely the latest chapter
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 12:54 PM
Sep 2023

i.e. this is a progression of a trend which was already occurring

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
7. Nope...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 01:35 PM
Sep 2023

...what I have said is this is the beginning of an unprecedented era of progressively worsening natural disasters caused specifically by recent human activity.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
8. That's like picking up a book, turning to Chapter 5 and proclaiming it "the beginning"
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 03:41 PM
Sep 2023

The book begins at the Introduction, I suggest this would be the work of Svante Arrhenius.

The first 4 chapters provide the context for Chapter 5, as changes in the climate are scientifically verified and documented, then, the first disasters begin to be attributed to “climate change.”

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
10. Nope again...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 06:39 PM
Sep 2023

...It's like starting a book at the beginning, reading through the first 5 chapters that introduce you to characters and start setting the scene for the first murder in chapter 6, and then reading on as each chapter after that presents more and more murders.

The weather disasters that we're discussing are the murders (spoiler alert: the murderer is the fossil fuel industry).

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
12. You've left out a major part of the story
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 07:12 PM
Sep 2023

You see… there have been a number of unsolved murders…

No one had connected the dots, the police said they were just random killings, until our hero realized that there was a “Climate Killer” at work! At first, the police were skeptical. Then, they openly mocked our hero, “There have always been unsolved murders. There will always be unsolved murders.”

In Chapter 4, the story breaks in the newspapers. The headlines shout, Another Murder! Could it be a “Climate Killer‽” Asked to comment, the police chief says, “Well, it’s difficult to say whether any individual murder is the work of a (as you say) ‘Climate Killer,’ or not, but, if there was a ‘Climate Killer’ at work, then, yes, we might expect to see more of this sort of killing occur.”

In Chapter 5, when yet another murder inevitably occurs, the newspaper headlines scream, “Climate Killer” Strikes Again! Police Powerless to Stop the Killing! The killings accelerate!


Admittedly, the story is getting exciting, but, this is hardly “just the beginning…”

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
13. Nope...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 07:44 PM
Sep 2023

...the killings will go on for many generations.

We are experiencing THE BEGINNING of severe natural disasters (and other ecological devastations) caused by CO2 emissions.

To say we're not at the beginning, means you believe that the length of time we will suffer these disasters is close to an end.

It is not.

These disasters are just beginning.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
14. "To say we're not at the beginning, means you believe ..."
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 08:04 PM
Sep 2023

Hardly.

However, to say that this is just the beginning implies that you’ve been ignoring the events of the last 40 years…

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
15. The severe disasters...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 08:17 PM
Sep 2023

..have not been occurring for 40 years, they have only recently begun to occur, ergo, we are at the beginning of the severe disasters.

Besides, 40 years IS just the beginning of the multiple centuries (millennia?) of disasters and destruction that we are now increasing the severity of by not stopping the burning of fossil fuels immediately.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
16. And how do you know that?
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 09:47 PM
Sep 2023

Was Hurricane Katrina at least partly attributable to “Climate Change?” Hurricane Hugo? Hurricane Andrew? Hurricane Ivan?

In 1988, James Hansen testified (in part):

I would like to draw three main conclusions. Number one, the earth is warmer in 1988 than at any time in the history of instrumental measurements. Number two, the global warming is now large enough that we can ascribe with a high degree of confidence a cause and effect relationship to the greenhouse effect. And number three, our computer climate simulations indicate that the greenhouse effect is already large enough to begin to affect the probability of extreme events such as summer heat waves.

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
17. sigh...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 10:46 PM
Sep 2023

...you do know that discussions can be had without finding an argument for absolutely everything, don't you?

Or is this your only shtick?

OKIsItJustMe

(20,422 posts)
18. You keep saying this is "Just the beginning."
Thu Sep 14, 2023, 01:58 AM
Sep 2023

It is not. Some of us have been following this story for decades. We have been watching “unprecedented events” occur continually. It has not just begun. This is not, “just the beginning,” it is part of a ghastly, horrifying continuum.

For years, the running dark joke of this forum was “faster than expected” because so many news stories about the unprecedented changes taking place seemed to use that phrase or something like it. One regular contributor, “XemaSab,” created this graphic for use as a signature.



We do not know for certain how long (or even if) tropical cyclones (hurricanes) have been spawned or heightened by our emissions of “Greenhouse Gases.” It seems reasonable to think that for as long as “global warming” has been taking place, storms have been affected to some degree. It also seems reasonable to think that as “global warming” has increased, those effects have increased as well. There certainly seems to be a linkage between extreme amounts of rain and warming, but a positive linkage for tropical cyclones has been elusive. They seem to be getting stronger, and they seem to be dropping more rain.

In 1983 (i.e. 40 years ago) the National Academy of Sciences committee report in essence said, we just don’t know enough to link storms to increased CO₂.


Changing Climate: Report of the Carbon Dioxide Assessment Committee (1983)



The implication of the prospective increases in trace gases is that climatic changes of the character expected for elevated CO₂ concentrations may be encountered sooner than if CO₂ were the only cause of change, or, alternatively, that estimates solely of a CO₂ effect may be conservative.

At present little or nothing can be estimated about changes in extreme conditions that might accompany changes in mean climatic conditions and more generally about the weather of future climate. We do not know, for example, whether the climate will show more or less year-to-year variability under generally warmer planetary conditions. Variability of climate is one of its moat important features. Food production, human settlements, and numerous aspects of the environment are strongly influenced by occasional extreme episodes. An area of particular interest is that of severe storms. The frequency, severity, and track of hurricanes and other severe storms are likely to be affected by CO₂-induced climatic changes, such as warming of ocean waters. Neither our current knowledge of storm genesis nor the current capabilities of climate models are great enough to allow convincing linkages at this time.



40 years later, we have much better models, but NOAA says:
NOAA: State of the Science FACT SHEET - Atlantic Hurricanes and Climate Change
[div class="excerpt”]…

Several Atlantic hurricane activity metrics show pronounced increases since 1980. However, evidence for any significant trends is much weaker considering trends beginning from the early 20th century, partly due to observed data limitations. Decreases in aerosol forcing since the 1970s and multidecadal ocean circulation changes are thought to be contributing to the increased Atlantic hurricane activity since 1980, though their relative contributions are still uncertain and with no scientific consensus. While greenhouse gas-induced warming may have also affected Atlantic hurricane activity, a detectable greenhouse gas influence on hurricane activity has not been identified with high confidence. This is partly due to the masking of any century-scale trends by pronounced multidecadal variability due to aerosols and/or internal variability. Determining the relative contributions of aerosols, internal variability, and other factors to the recent multidecadal variations in Atlantic hurricane activity has important implications for predictions for the coming decades.




This has been another year of unprecedented events, and, scary as hell. But this is not “just the beginning” nor are we approaching the end (things are going to get worse, just as they have been doing for some time now.)

Welcome to “Global Weirding.”

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
19. Using your logic...
Thu Sep 14, 2023, 06:37 AM
Sep 2023

...it can be argued that the big bang was the 'beginning' of climate change, and apparently that's what you're trying to do.

I can't imagine why you're being so insistent on making these pseudo-arguments, based only on the semantics of the discussion. That could only serve to diminish people's concerns over the onset of the ecological reactions to CO2 emissions, and I am putting aside my suspicion that this is exactly what you're intent is. That would be known as 'gaslighting'.

I stand by my statements that we are experiencing 'just the beginning' of the severe results of our CO2 emissions.

Brenda

(1,310 posts)
9. I absolutely understand and agree with you TA.
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 05:41 PM
Sep 2023

When global warming actually began is known.

When scientists and government people knew about global warming and its repurcussions is pretty well known, too.

The non-stop worldwide catastrophic effects of climate change began in the last few years and they are going to get worse and continue unabated for many if not hundreds of years. No matter what the fuck humans do.

Yes, Hurricane Katrina in 2005 (18 years ago) was a wake-up call about rapid intensification of hurricanes due to extremely hot sea surface temps near the coastlines.

Yet yesterday I read this: https://www.democraticunderground.com/10143128841

The population of the New Orleans urban area grew to 963,212 residents from 914,531. The additional 48,681 residents had been mistakenly assigned to the Laplace-Lutcher-Gramercy, Louisiana, urban area, which was supposed to be deleted following a merger with the New Orleans urban area.

There should be open, honest discussions about what is going to happen and which populations are extremely vulnerable and lay out plans for migration, displacement.

The denial and/or indifference by governments and greed of developers and the plutocrats who own the US is disgusting.

A hell of a lot of people are going to suffer. Sooner rather than generations from now.

Think. Again.

(17,207 posts)
11. Thank you...
Wed Sep 13, 2023, 06:49 PM
Sep 2023

...it's gets frustrating having discussions with people who want to convince everyone that what we're doing is no big deal, when the undeniable fact, as you understand, and as virtually every credible climate scientist tells us, is that with each day we continue to pump CO2 into the atmosphere, we are causing more and more destruction, death, and misery for ourselves and certainly for everyone who comes after us.

I appreciate hearing from folks like you who take this very seriously.

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