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OKIsItJustMe

(20,178 posts)
Mon Jul 15, 2024, 04:55 AM Jul 15

AP: World's first hydrogen-powered commercial ferry to run on San Francisco Bay, and it's free to ride

https://apnews.com/article/ferry-hydrogen-climate-change-greenhouse-gases-b2f9700910eddafc96105a39a2e0399e
World’s first hydrogen-powered commercial ferry to run on San Francisco Bay, and it’s free to ride

BY TERRY CHEA
Updated 11:21 PM EDT, July 12, 2024

SAN FRANCISCO (AP) — The world’s first hydrogen-powered commercial passenger ferry will start operating on San Francisco Bay as part of plans to phase out diesel-powered vessels and reduce planet-warming carbon emissions, California officials said Friday, demonstrating the ship.

The 70-foot (21-meter) catamaran called the MV Sea Change will transport up to 75 passengers along the waterfront between Pier 41 and the downtown San Francisco ferry terminal starting July 19, officials said. The service will be free for six months while it’s being run as part of a pilot program.

“The implications for this are huge because this isn’t its last stop,” said Jim Wunderman, chair of the San Francisco Bay Area Water Emergency Transportation Authority, which runs commuter ferries across the bay. “If we can operate this successfully, there are going to be more of these vessels in our fleet and in other folks’ fleets in the United States and we think in the world.”

Sea Change can travel about 300 nautical miles and operate for 16 hours before it needs to refuel. The fuel cells produce electricity by combining oxygen and hydrogen in an electrochemical reaction that emits water as a byproduct.

(Video at link)

https://zeroei.com
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AP: World's first hydrogen-powered commercial ferry to run on San Francisco Bay, and it's free to ride (Original Post) OKIsItJustMe Jul 15 OP
This is a huge--if also tiny--step forward DFW Jul 15 #1
Just look at the Hindenburg in 1937. OKIsItJustMe Jul 15 #3
Safety with fuel oil is practically a science and an industry unto itself DFW Jul 15 #4
How strange that we encounter fuel oil fires... OKIsItJustMe Jul 15 #5
Hydrogen buses are scary! They could catch fire or explode! OKIsItJustMe Jul 15 #6
Any port in a storm. marble falls Jul 15 #2

DFW

(55,910 posts)
1. This is a huge--if also tiny--step forward
Mon Jul 15, 2024, 06:20 AM
Jul 15

Hydrogen power is not new. It is also not without its perils. Just look at the Hindenburg in 1937. I would have to assume this project has addressed those issues and overcome them, or else it wouldn‘t be operating public transportation so powered. Bravo if they have! 100% emissions-free AND 100% safe is a goal that used to belong to the realm of science fiction up to now. Even horses aren‘t 100% emission-free, as anyone familiar with the term „horseshit“ will remind you.

I also wince at the term “free.” The service may be offered at no cost to riding passengers during the experimental period, and that‘s fine. But the research to develop the boat was not done by unpaid technicians. The material to build it was not donated by the companies that made them. The workers that built it did not do so for zero wages. Providing pure hydrogen is not something done on a whim. The crew operating the boat is not doing it without pay for six months. The people working the docks from which the boat departs and leaves have not offered to work those hours without pay. Like education in Germany, the cost of the service is being borne by the taxpayers via their paying for the San Francisco Bay Area Water Emergency Transportation Authority. This is actually a good thing in my opinion, like the method of financing education in Germany. But it is not „free.“ If it isn’t being provided by slave labor, nothing really is. This is as it should be, but the people who are really paying for it deserve to know it.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,178 posts)
3. Just look at the Hindenburg in 1937.
Mon Jul 15, 2024, 10:43 AM
Jul 15

The Hindenburg was a giant gas bag, filled with hydrogen (well a number of giant gas bags, contained by a larger bag. The fire seems to have been started by a combination of leaking gas, and weather conditions, leading to sparks. A number of victims suffered terrible burns from the diesel fuel used to power the motors.

A better analogy might be the Challenger explosion. In that case, you had a large fuel tank, with essentially a blowtorch aimed at it.

Hydrogen is flammable, and under the right conditions, explosive, just as oil is (for example) yet, for some reason people are scared of hydrogen.

https://apnews.com/article/explosions-cuba-fires-caribbean-fe8040ae6f88442a8d49f93574ba2c19

17 missing, 121 hurt, 1 dead in fire at Cuban oil facility

BY ANDREA RODRÍGUEZ
Published 10:53 PM EDT, August 6, 2022

HAVANA (AP) — A fire set off by a lightning strike at an oil storage facility raged uncontrolled in the Cuban city of Matanzas, where four explosions and flames injured 121 people and left 17 firefighters missing. Cuban authorities said a unidentified body had been found late Saturday.

Firefighters and other specialists were still trying to quell the blaze at the Matanzas Supertanker Base, where the fire began during a thunderstorm Friday night, the Ministry of Energy and Mines tweeted. Authorities said about 800 people were evacuated from the Dubrocq neighborhood closest to the fire,

The government said it had asked for help from international experts in “friendly countries” with experience in the oil sector.

Deputy Foreign Minister Carlos Fernández de Cossío said the U.S. government had offered technical help to quell the blaze. On his Twitter account, he said the “proposal is in the hands of specialists for the due coordination.”

DFW

(55,910 posts)
4. Safety with fuel oil is practically a science and an industry unto itself
Mon Jul 15, 2024, 11:28 AM
Jul 15

Playing with hydrogen as a fuel is like lighting a match in an enclosed room to look for a gas leak. You have to be doubly and triply sure that protections against leaks are in place and tested numerous times. If something goes wrong, there will be nothing left to save.

OKIsItJustMe

(20,178 posts)
5. How strange that we encounter fuel oil fires...
Mon Jul 15, 2024, 02:10 PM
Jul 15
https://apnews.com/article/louisiana-refinery-fire-evacuation-8acd26a19faee26206ba61d570ac0b6a
Fire at Louisiana oil refinery sends tower of black smoke into the air, but no injuries reported

Updated 5:57 PM EDT, August 25, 2023

GARYVILLE, La. (AP) — A massive fire at a south Louisiana oil refinery sent a tower of black smoke billowing into the air above the Mississippi River on Friday, forcing nearby residents to evacuate for several hours as emergency crews battled the blaze.



https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/explosion-fire-baytown-texas-exxonmobil-oil-refinery-rcna9756
Several people injured after fire at ExxonMobil oil refinery in Texas
At least three people were transported to hospital by air ambulance as authorities responded to the "major industrial accident" in Baytown, just over 25 miles east of Houston.



https://whyy.org/articles/faulty-old-pipe-caused-pes-refinery-explosion-sending-a-bus-size-piece-of-debris-flying-across-schuylkill/
Faulty, old pipe caused PES refinery explosion, sending a bus-size piece of debris flying across Schuylkill
A federal investigation blames faulty, old pipe for the explosion and fire at the South Philly refinery. Hydrofluoric acid was released in the blast.

BySusan PhillipsDana BateOctober 16, 2019





I guess the science needs… uh… refining


A tank of oil, a tank of gasoline, a tank of hydrogen, a charged battery, all represent stored energy, which, under the right conditions may be released suddenly with undesirable results.

Which of these cars would you rather be sitting in?


Read more about this simulation here: https://www1.eere.energy.gov/hydrogenandfuelcells/pdfs/30535be.pdf
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