Environment & Energy

Caribbeans

(950 posts) Fri Aug 30, 2024, 05:37 PM Aug 30

How did Recology's hydrogen fuel cell truck pilot go?

CEO Sal Coniglio shared exclusive details about the pilot Recology conducted with Hyzon and New Way’s hydrogen fuel cell refuse collection vehicle

“The truck is exceeding our expectations"

How did Recology’s hydrogen fuel cell truck pilot go?

Wastedive.com | Aug. 29, 2024 | Jacob Wallace

Sal Coniglio, CEO of West Coast waste hauler Recology, is impressed by the hydrogen fuel cell truck his company is piloting.

Developed by hydrogen fuel cell manufacturer Hyzon and New Way Trucks, the vehicle is on a planned tour of cities in the U.S. and Canada, where the partners hope to generate support for a cutting-edge technology. Hyzon, in particular, is betting big on refuse vehicles in North America after it announced a strategic pivot away from international expansion plans earlier this year.

“The truck is exceeding our expectations. The drivers are very pleased with the productivity and the power of the truck,” Coniglio said in an interview Monday.

The companies say the two-week pilot is the first test of a hydrogen fuel cell-powered refuse collection vehicle in North America. Its debut comes as state and federal regulators around the country are pressuring waste haulers to decarbonize their fleets of collection vehicles, in turn placing pressure on manufacturers to deliver alternatives to fossil fuel-powered vehicles...

...Coniglio said the truck lasted multiple service days on a single fueling of its hydrogen tank. In contrast with battery-electric trucks Recology has used, the hydrogen fuel cell truck doesn’t have an issue with heavy payloads, he said...more
https://www.wastedive.com/news/recology-coniglio-hyzon-new-way-san-francisco-hydrogen-fuel-cell-waste-pilot/

11 replies

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Highlight:

How did Recology's hydrogen fuel cell truck pilot go? (Original Post) Caribbeans Aug 30 OP

Hmmm? The hydrogen-powered trucks don't have an issue with heavy payloads...? brush Aug 30 #1

In the video he mentioned.... Think. Again. Aug 30 #2

H2 is 14 times lighter than air Caribbeans Aug 30 #4

It's the tank needed to hold enough H2 for a decent range that is heavy. progree Aug 30 #6

I believe those H2 storage tanks are made of lightweight composite material... Think. Again. Aug 30 #7

I'm wondering "light weight" compared to what? progree Aug 30 #8

I really don't know, the Fuel Cell unit and electric motors themselves I would guess. Think. Again. Aug 30 #10

Here in Santa Cruz County, electric buses couldn't make the hills well. CoopersDad Aug 30 #11

Thanks for posting this! Think. Again. Aug 30 #3

"Hyzon said the fuel used in the Recology pilot was derived from natural gas. ..." progree Aug 30 #5

I think (but not sure) that the problem with Green (no ff) vs. Blue (uses ff) H2 is the lack of... Think. Again. Aug 30 #9

brush

(57,219 posts)

1. Hmmm? The hydrogen-powered trucks don't have an issue with heavy payloads...?

Reply to Caribbeans (Original post)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 05:49 PM

Aug 30

Last edited Sat Aug 31, 2024, 09:34 AM - Edit history (2)

I guess versus IC or EV partly because of the weight of deisel fuel or the EV's battery?

And does the hydrogen/fuel cell weight much compared to diesel fuel and an EV battery?

Think. Again.

(17,324 posts)

2. In the video he mentioned....

Reply to brush (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 06:22 PM

Aug 30

...that because of the torque power from the fuel cell operated electric drive, carrying the 10 ton payload up and down the hills of San Francisco was no problem compared to the diesel trucks these ar replacing (all electric drivetrains are much more powerful than ICE drives), and yes the weight of batteries in battery-based trucks would be a massive addition to that payload.

Also yes, I believe H2 is pretty lightweight as a fuel.

Caribbeans

(950 posts)

4. H2 is 14 times lighter than air

Reply to Think. Again. (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 06:53 PM

Aug 30

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/articles/safety-codes-and-standards-fact-sheet

which is why escaped hydrogen isn't as big a problem as escaped natural gas or propane, which we all know can be a big problem. Escaped propane sinks and collects leading to things like this. Those who say H2 is "dangerous" must hate to see big propane tankers driving around!

Imagine the bang!

As opposed to this

progree

(11,463 posts)

6. It's the tank needed to hold enough H2 for a decent range that is heavy.

Reply to Think. Again. (Reply #2)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 07:56 PM

Aug 30

At 700 bar (~10,000 psi) a storage system would have a volume of about 200 liters ((53 gallons -progree)) or 3-4 times the volume of gasoline tanks typically found in cars today. A key challenge, therefore, is how to store sufficient quantities of hydrogen onboard without sacrificing passenger and cargo space.

https://www.energy.gov/eere/fuelcells/articles/hydrogen-storage-fact-sheet

But for a 300 mile range, the H2 itself is lighter than the gasoline itself (progreerian words and progreerian math) :

The compressed H2 itself weighs about 5kg (from the energy.gov source above)

A gallon of gasoline weighs about 6 pounds - jdpower. So at say 40 mpg, a 300 mile range vehicle needs 7.5 gallons or 45 pounds ((20.45 kg)) of gasoline. ((2.2 pounds per kg)).

So the weight difference is that H2 is 20.45 - 5 = 15.45 kg lighter ((34 pounds)) than gasoline.

Caution: the above numbers are typical of a regular vehicle, not a waste hauling truck. It's just an example.

Think. Again.

(17,324 posts)

7. I believe those H2 storage tanks are made of lightweight composite material...

Reply to progree (Reply #6)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 08:13 PM

Aug 30

Profound safety & quality culture
Our in-house test capabilities for most relevant requirements (hydraulic, leak, burst testing, bonfire, penetration, permeation) ensure highest safety and quality standards.

Durable
Our composite storage solutions offer high durability and meet the demanding requirements for large scale up and high consumption of hydrogen that is expected in the years to come

Lightweight
Compressed hydrogen stored in lightweight composite cylinders, enables increased payload and large-scale storage and transportation

Certified & standardized
To ensure highest quality standards, our manufacturing facilities are certified according to ISO 9001:2008 and IATF 16949:2016, whereas our tanks comply with various international standards

Source:
https://hexagonpurus.com/our-solutions/hydrogen-type-4-cylinders

progree

(11,463 posts)

8. I'm wondering "light weight" compared to what?

Reply to Think. Again. (Reply #7)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 08:36 PM

Aug 30

Edited to add I read from a quick look at Google results that hydrogen-fuel cell vehicles are heavier than ICE counterparts ... so what is it that is weightier?

Think. Again.

(17,324 posts)

10. I really don't know, the Fuel Cell unit and electric motors themselves I would guess.

Reply to progree (Reply #8)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 10:01 PM

Aug 30

CoopersDad

(2,811 posts)

11. Here in Santa Cruz County, electric buses couldn't make the hills well.

Reply to brush (Reply #1)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 11:31 PM

Aug 30

So a fleet of 57 hydrogen buses are on order, the largest grant ever for the largest fleet in North America.

Pretty cool for a small county like ours.

I think the order had to be reduced by 4 because some of the existing fleet didn't qualify as needing to be replaced.

https://scmtd.com/images/department/ceo/METRO_HydrogenBusPurchase_Release092223FINAL.pdf

Think. Again.

(17,324 posts)

3. Thanks for posting this!

Reply to Caribbeans (Original post)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 06:24 PM

Aug 30

It looks like we're slowly making progress in seeing real-life applications of clean fuels despite the fossil fuel industry's pushback!

progree

(11,463 posts)

5. "Hyzon said the fuel used in the Recology pilot was derived from natural gas. ..."

Reply to Caribbeans (Original post)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 07:32 PM

Aug 30

Hyzon said the fuel used in the Recology pilot was derived from natural gas. The source of hydrogen for use in fuels is a sticking point for environmentalists, as many argue any “alternative” fuels brought to market today should be displacing, rather than reinforcing, fossil fuel infrastructure. A spokesperson for Hyzon said the company is committed to supporting a “renewable hydrogen ecosystem.”

“Hyzon uses all efforts to source clean hydrogen and, if unavailable, works with customers on a clear plan to transition to it as clean hydrogen production increases,” Ismail Cidic, the spokesperson, said in an email.

Coniglio said Recology could begin producing hydrogen of its own to power fuel cell vehicles through landfill gas or organics processed via digestion.

There's a little more on this subject in the article. I'm surprised no mention of electrolysis. So I guess electrolysis is significantly more expensive than the above options.

Think. Again.

(17,324 posts)

9. I think (but not sure) that the problem with Green (no ff) vs. Blue (uses ff) H2 is the lack of...

Reply to progree (Reply #5)

Fri Aug 30, 2024, 09:59 PM

Aug 30

...plants producing Green H2 versus the fairly common older plants producing Blue H2.

I know that Biden's IRA bill dedicates a lot of start up assistance and a rough plan for creating "Hydrogen Hubs" to produce Green H2, but of course that is taking time to build out so that Green H2 can become readily available.

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