Environment & Energy
Related: About this forumAs Weather Extremes Get Worse, 37% Of Republicans Surveyed Deny Warming Exists - Up From 27% In 2017
EDIT
The shift Leiserowitz and his colleagues detected was driven in large part by moderate and right-leaning Democrats. In 2017, less than one-third of those voters included preventing extreme weather among their top three reasons for desiring action, but by this year, half of moderate and conservative Democrats ranked it that highly. The opinions of moderate and left-leaning Republicans, however, stayed mostly unchanged, with just under 30 percent of those voters citing extreme weather as a top three reason to reduce global warming. Perhaps surprisingly, extreme weather even increased in relevance among conservative Republicans, with 21 percent listing it as a leading reason compared to just 16 percent in 2017.
But even as extreme weather became increasingly salient among the most conservative voters, far more of them selected the survey option global warming isnt happening. In 2024, a full 37 percent of conservative Republicans denied the reality of climate change, compared to 27 percent just seven years earlier.
Peoples beliefs about climate change are driven predominantly by political factors, said Peter Howe, an environmental social scientist at Utah State University who has worked with Leiserowitz in the past but was uninvolved in this analysis. The political and social circles a person occupies and the beliefs they hold not only mediate ones overall opinions about climate change, Howe pointed out, but they influence how that person experiences extreme weather.
When Howe collected and reviewed studies analyzing the connections between extreme weather and personal opinions about climate change, he found that although those already concerned about the crisis often had their anxieties heightened by a natural disaster, those who were dismissive before the event often remained so, ignoring any potential connection to global warming. When Constant Tra, an environmental economist at the University of Nevada Las Vegas, and his colleagues published a similar study in May, he found that disasters dont shove people toward concern and alarm in the way he expected. At best, it kind of nudges people, he said, but rarely moves someone from an entrenched position of categorical denial, especially when those around them arent concerned.
EDIT
https://www.motherjones.com/environment/2024/09/extreme-weather-has-had-a-surprising-impact-on-voters-attitudes-about-climate-change/
jfz9580m
(15,488 posts)There is a website called Faunalytics that researches public attitudes towards farm and other animal welfare. I think it is a worthwhile pursuit to research societal attitudes on these issues especially if they can be translated to very real action downstream.
OKIsItJustMe
(20,763 posts)In the intervening years, Climate Science has only become more definitive, and examples of its real world effects more dramatic, so, why have these people decided that it is bunk?
(For the same reason that they dont trust their local election officials, because they have been lied to repeatedly and consistently.)
Last edited Thu Sep 26, 2024, 11:07 PM - Edit history (2)
I think you would appreciate the oped by Dr Collins I posted in another thread in a response to you OKIsItJustMe.
The problem of disinfo on complex topics has been on my mind a lot. Contrarianism on climate science is easy to dismiss by now. (Not that Björn Lomborg has shut up).
It is more complicated on topics related to some solutions. Our inaction thus far has made more scientists open to more drastic solutions. It is not that clear what the eventual honest scientific consensus will be on some of that (weather modification being an example). For non-experts, trying to guage the scientific consensus on those specific technologies is complicated by the fact that there probably arent very clear ones yet.
Public opinions on such topics cover a whole spectrum of views from genuinely inane panic over technology to brainless techno-optimism (think Elon Musk or similar lesser known, but fairly typical Si Valley fraudsters/creeps/hacks). It is that type which alarms me. Creeps like Musk are brainless, bullish and have far too much money and clout. Idiots like those would aggressively invest in anything that makes money in the short run whether it clears scientific bars re regulation and management or not. Adjacent to them are the RFK jr/Tulsi Gabbard meets Maga Brand of techno skeptic. Odd bedfellows at first glance, but not really when you think about it.
It makes the jobs/lives of honest scientists harder in every way. Look at how hard the pandemic was on poor Dr. Fauci.
The Audubon Society had a good piece a few years ago on the real versus bullshit threats birds face for instance:
https://www.audubon.org/news/no-5g-radio-waves-do-not-kill-birds
A respectable study was misrepresented to hype a bullshit threat to birds while real threats to birds like habitat destruction are ignored.
(Finally complicating matters there are also always important/serious contributions to these topics like these ;-/ :
https://newrepublic.com/article/181241/birds-arent-real-prank-conspiracy-theory-misinformation-spreads
)
OKIsItJustMe
(20,763 posts)Last edited Thu Sep 26, 2024, 01:30 PM - Edit history (1)
Take, for a notorious example, the fact that the Earth is (roughly) spherical. We joke about flat earthers, but they exist, and they will go to great lengths to support their beliefs.
https://www.scientificamerican.com/podcast/episode/flat-earthers-what-they-believe-and-why/
Eratosthenes was able to calculate the circumference of the Earth and the tilt of its axis quite accurately more than 2,000 years ago without a rocket ship to carry him into orbit. (No, Columbus did not come up with the idea that the Earth was round.) Its not a terribly complex concept.
Donald Trump works on the assumption that if he just tells people something, they will believe him and hes not wrong, hes been doing this his entire life. It does not matter if he lost dozens of cases which were heard by judges, he can simply say that they were dismissed because the judges falsely claimed he had "no standing and people will believe him.
Its not some really complex issue, or some unknowable truth which has been lost in history. You can look it up. Or, you can read all about them in an analysis by serious conservatives.
He can claim that the rains held off for his inaugural address (they didnt) or that his crowds were the largest ever (they werent) these are not complex issues.
The problem is confirmation bias.
🎵All lies and jest
Still a man hears what he wants to hear
And disregards the rest🎶
OKIsItJustMe
(20,763 posts)How motivation, identity and ideology combine to undermine human judgment
By Kirsten Weir
May 2017, Vol 48, No. 5
Print version: page 24
9 min read
Fact or opinion?
It's a distinction we learn as kids. But it turns out judging facts isn't nearly as black-and-white as your third-grade teacher might have had you believe.
In reality, we rely on a biased set of cognitive processes to arrive at a given conclusion or belief. This natural tendency to cherry pick and twist the facts to fit with our existing beliefs is known as motivated reasoningand we all do it.
"Motivated reasoning is a pervasive tendency of human cognition," says Peter Ditto, PhD, a social psychologist at the University of California, Irvine, who studies how motivation, emotion and intuition influence judgment. "People are capable of being thoughtful and rational, but our wishes, hopes, fears and motivations often tip the scales to make us more likely to accept something as true if it supports what we want to believe.
In today's era of polarized politicsand when facts themselves are under attackunderstanding this inclination (and finding ways to sidestep it) has taken on new urgency, psychologists say.
jfz9580m
(15,488 posts)Thanks!
Of course whenever I read something like that I hope that it raises a cautionary flag in my own head the next time I think irrationally..sometimes it will, but at other times it wont probably..;-/. Still..it is better than not thinking about it at all I suppose.
jfz9580m
(15,488 posts)Look at the constant claim that the DOJ has been weaponised under Biden for instance.
Even Newsweek can see through it:
https://www.newsweek.com/doj-indictments-democrats-biden-administration-eric-adams-1959948
Newsweek is if anything at least slightly conservative, but they are not too bad wrt a shared reality. They strike me as the sort of the older style (ie more reasonable) conservatives.. unlike Trump/Boebert/Marjorie Green/Gaetz/Vance etc.
The problem is also the exhaustion that goes with having to defend any view you hold going back to the basics -this is ultimately a battle only the internet conspiracy theorist can win.
I would certainly get flustered easily in arguments with this type of person (the kind who wants to debate every single accepted fact because they have a counter theory that is lunatic). It takes me time to formulate a response. Yes everyone should know more and be able to debate simple enough topics. But our societies are very complex.
At various points you do have to accept that something is expert opinion or the consensus in this or that field.
But as you pointed out so often it is not even about stuff that is that hard to verify or debunk.
Btw thanks for your detailed and interesting posts ..they are a fun read .
OAITW r.2.0
(28,392 posts)Those remaining in this Party will eventually increase their % as saner people exit the GOP.
Zambero
(9,764 posts)And MAGA has its Jim Jones equivalent, eager and willing to ascribe to whatever preposterous pronouncement that the Dear Leader utters. Up is down, wet is dry, dark is light. It would seem that George Orwell saw it coming.
OKIsItJustMe
(20,763 posts)In a recent study, USC and Australian researchers found that the strength of peoples convictions in climate science can weaken when they are exposed repeatedly to statements or claims that contradict their beliefs.
September 23, 2024
By Emily Gersema
A study of mostly climate science believers shows just how easily information and misinformation can blur peoples sense of the truth. All it takes is repetition.
In recent research published in the journal PLOS ONE, USC and Australian researchers explored the powerful effect of repetition on peoples beliefs.
In two rounds studies, they found that even the strongest believers in climate science those categorized as alarmed believers felt that the skeptical and pro-climate beliefs seemed more true when they encountered them a second time.
It could take as little as a single repetition to make someone feel as though a claim were true, said Norbert Schwarz, a study co-author and Provost Professor of psychology at the USC Dornsife College of Letters, Arts and Sciences and the USC Marshall School of Business. Its certainly concerning, especially when you consider how many people are exposed to both truthful and false claims and either spread them or are persuaded by them to make decisions that might affect the planet.
(See also gaslighting.)
ThoughtCriminal
(14,293 posts)For Republicans It sure as Phoenix isn't being driven by objective reality.