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hatrack

(60,920 posts)
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 07:35 AM 5 hrs ago

Projected 10-30% Increase In Natural Gas Power Generation Because Muh AI Datacenters Must Be Fed!!! Oh, And Coal, Too

The explosion of data center development across the United States to serve the artificial intelligence industry is threatening decades of progress cutting greenhouse gas emissions, as utilities lay plans for scores of new gas power plants to meet soaring electricity demand.

EDIT

As part of the U.S. pledge to cut its total greenhouse gas emissions in half by the end of the decade, compared to 2005 levels, President Joe Biden has vowed to eliminate all power grid emissions by 2035. But there are 220 new, gas-burning power plants in various stages of development nationwide, according to the market data firm Yes Energy. Most of those plants are targeted to come online before 2032. Each has a lifespan of 25 to 40 years, meaning most would not be fully paid off — much less shut down — before federal and state target dates for transitioning power grids to cleaner electricity.

EDIT

The power sector was a bright spot in cutting emissions. They fell steadily over the last few decades, even as electricity use grew. A big factor was the steep drop in coal burning. Coal powered more than half of U.S. electricity in 1990, according to the University of Maryland’s Center for Global Sustainability. This year, it is less than 20 percent.

But even coal is making a comeback amid the data center boom. In several states, planned retirements of coal plants are already on hold. A Duke Energy executive told Bloomberg News that it will reexamine plans to burn less coal in Indiana if the Trump administration rescinds power plant emission rules. Data centers are behind two-thirds of the new demand for power in the Omaha region, where the Omaha Public Power District has delayed the closure of a major coal plant and is bringing online two large new gas plants. The utility said in a statement that it might purchase green energy credits, called “carbon offsets” in the future “as part of its overall plan to reach net-zero carbon.”

EDIT

https://www.washingtonpost.com/climate-environment/2024/11/19/ai-cop29-climate-data-centers/

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highplainsdem

(52,337 posts)
1. Disgusting. And this is mostly about that nearly worthless genAI used for student cheating and other
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 07:55 AM
5 hrs ago

fraud, for AI slop fake art and video flooding the internet, for AI slop fake books/articles and music, for AI-generated-and-spread misinformation and disinformation, for deepfakes including deepfake porn.

The sheer stupidity of the genAI boom, given all the harm it does, is almost unbelievable.

But it entertains and deceives the gullible, lets students think they can cheat their way through school, and lets greedy company owners and execs think they can dump most of their employees so there's more money for those at the top. It almost always brings out the worst in people.

But it's new tech, so we're supposed to welcome it and adapt to it.

hatrack

(60,920 posts)
2. Yes, let us all kneel and praise Shiny New Thing!!
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 08:23 AM
4 hrs ago

It's Shiny!! It's New!! It's Thing!!

We will now proceed to kill ourselves for pixels. Literally.

NNadir

(34,659 posts)
3. My son's Ph.D work involves convolutional neural networks for...
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 10:18 AM
2 hrs ago

...image processing of TEM for printed steels.

I'll let him know it's immoral and pornographic to conduct his work.

I'll also be sure to let all the folks i know working on protein dynamics simulations to understand that their work is immoral and pornographic.

You learn something every day.

It is possible of course to generate electricity without releasing dangerous fossil fuel waste, but it's had rather dishonest bad press.

highplainsdem

(52,337 posts)
4. Don't misread my post. I said nearly worthless.There are some good uses for AI, but they don't excuse
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 10:44 AM
2 hrs ago

the harm other uses are causing.

highplainsdem

(52,337 posts)
6. GenAI models are almost all built on abuse - theft of intellectual property - and the dissemination and
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 11:05 AM
1 hr ago

marketing of those tools mostly encourages those harmful uses.

I doubt valid, non-harmful scientific and medical uses of genAI account for more than a tiny percentage of the money, energy and water it uses.

And the world isn't going to benefit much from a few scientific advances if the population is dumbed down, culture is stolen so corporate-owned mimicry is sold back to us, most jobs are lost, surveillance is worsened, and the environment is seriously harmed.

NNadir

(34,659 posts)
7. Well, should I assume you are an expert and can provide...
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 12:02 PM
58 min ago

...some support for this contention?

What percentage of computational data tools is used for frivolous purposes?

DU certainly uses data services. I'm sure there are people in the coming fascist government would consider it unworthy of water and electricity.

highplainsdem

(52,337 posts)
8. DU doesn't use genAI. There are lots of articles out there on genAI increasing power demands, and
Thu Nov 21, 2024, 12:30 PM
30 min ago

a number have been posted here.

Again, I was not including scientific research among the harms done by genAI (but I will point out that after all the hype about AlphaFold, it was revealed later that with all the hallucinations, traditional checking had to be done - https://biosciences.lbl.gov/2024/01/23/researchers-assess-alphafold-model-accuracy/ ).

The harms I mentioned to society are not "frivolous" and it's wrong to pretend they are, just as it was wrong for you to post above that I'd said that your son's work was "immoral and pornographic" when I'd said nothing remotely like that. And please don't try to confuse data center construction that tech companies have said they need for genAI with computing in general. Google's AI search, for instance, uses 10x the electricity of regular search (and often produces less reliable results, and diverts traffic from websites the data is taken from, hurting the internet).

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