"give 'em hell, Harry!" at Harry Truman's rally, he replied that he didn't have to give them hell, he only had to tell the truth and they'd THINK it was hell. As for the video in question, which i haven't watched yet, references to slavery in the way we treat animals is one of those uncomfortable truths. When you hold an animal captive and confiscate it's eggs or milk or offspring, and then take it's life that's pretty much slavery and pretty shocking when you think about it.

I get a kick out of the point about leather shoes. The implication is that if you haven't yet gotten every bit of unnecessary animal suffering out of your life, then your quest has been for nothing. the fact is that these things are done in stages as people realize they can do just fine without causing needless animal suffering now that our big brains have figured out substitutes for everything we think we need. As for b-12, yes it's best for vegans to supplement to make sure they are getting enough. Getting enough b-12 through plants is an ability we have lost over years of eating carrion and mammalian bodily fluids so consistently.

Imagine if you had no issues at all with the way animals were treated in factory farms at all, and you just wanted to show pictures of the operation, just as you can watch interesting videos of peanut butter being made. We've all seen them, the jars moving swiftly done the line then each being filled with the exact same amount as the one before it, another arm slapping a label on the jar, etc. the point being that if you show pictures of how your "meat" is "produced" , even if you love factory farming and and meat, the videos would be shocking just because it is such an awful, evil, vile violent act.

You're comparing tiny numbers to huge numbers, implying that they're equivalent.

Just because some people might need medicines that use gelatin, we must all eat animal products. What brilliant logic!

You have absolutely no basis in suggesting that the presenter was wearing leather shoes. It's extremely naive to think that a representative of an animal-rights organization would give a talk on veganism wearing leather shoes. In any case, the leather argument is as weak as the gelatin-coated-pill argument. An omnivore buys a pair of leather shoes every few years but eats more than 30 animals per year on average. If everyone switched to a plant-based diet but continued to wear leather shoes, the reduction in animal suffering would be enormous.

Similarly, animal testing is a tiny effect compared to factory farming.

The speaker used slavery as an example of a cultural value that has changed. Indeed, 200 years ago slavery was considered acceptable by a large part of the citizenry, whereas today even the most extreme conservative would not advocate in favor of bringing it back. Why is it counter-productive to use this as an example of shifting cultural values? Are you suggesting that we must all start pretending, in order to avoid potentially making white people feel guilty, that slavery never happened?

Finally, it's interesting that you think it's "shocking" to see where the foods you eat come from. (I also suspect you didn't actually watch beyond the first few minutes of the video, since there is very little shocking content in the talk. Moreover, there was no mention of PETA; neither the lecture, nor the 3-minute video, were produced by PETA.)

P.S. I find it interesting that those who attack vegans feel a need to point out what their current diet is, and state that they refuse to change it. What you eat is between you and your conscience. If your conscience allows you to pay other people to mistreat animals for the benefit of your palate, that is something you have to live with. I couldn't care less.

P.P.S. I thought this was a friendly place for vegans? I didn't expect to get such an argumentative response to a video recommendation clearly aimed at people who are already on a plant-based diet.

correct. I was NOT making the point one should or should not become vegan.

As far as a "friendly place for vegans", I was not attacking vegans, but most important, I didn't notice that this was a special group ,otherwise I would not have posted here.

Since you feel that it is an attack, I will remove the initial post

This is a friendly place for vegans, vegetarians and anyone else seeking to ease the suffering of animals raised/used for human desire. Thank you for your response here.

good you posted it here and not in a general thread. I think it would get a lot of negative comments.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]I've been lacto-vegetarian for years already, now tapering slowly off the cheese and Greek yogurt I'm still hooked on.

Looking forward to watching this when I have the necessary uninterrupted hour plus. Thanks for posting.

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]An excellent presentation, one of the best I've seen. It hits all the best reasons to stick to a plant-based diet. I've been lactovegetarian-leaning-vegan for some time now, and once the little hunk of sharp cheddar in the fridge is gone, that will be the end of the dairy.

FWIW, hemp milk is the best and now that hemp is legal to grow in California, I'm hoping to see a lot more hemp food products available very soon. Hemp cheese and yogurt would make me a very, very happy vegan!

Compared to the common western diet that consists of a slab of meat smothered in cheese wrapped in white bread along with a side of deep fried potato and a big mug of fizzy sugar water and not a vegetable in site..
Any wonder theres an epidemic of obesity,diabetes,cancer and heart attacks.

Considering making the transition from vegetarian to vegan.....*thoughts pending*