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Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
Tue Jun 7, 2016, 10:30 PM Jun 2016

The new McCarthyism is pro-Israel: Legal groups slam NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo for creating

“unconstitutional” blacklist of BDS supporters

Source: Salon

Legislators in states throughout the U.S. are trying to push through pro-Israel bills that would punish Palestinian human rights advocates who endorse boycotts like those organized in order to combat U.S.-backed apartheid in South Africa.

Legal groups have long warned that this legislation amounts to “21st-century McCarthyism” and would create discriminatory “blacklists” of Palestinian solidarity activists.

New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has propelled this neo-McCarthyite movement to the next level, amid intense pressure from pro-Israel groups.

For months, the New York legislature has unsuccessfully tried to pass anti-boycott legislation. Cuomo circumvented this legal process completely on Sunday and signed a surprise executive order that punishes institutions that support a boycott of Israel on behalf of Palestinian human rights.

Read more: http://www.salon.com/2016/06/06/the_new_mccarthyism_is_pro_israel_legal_groups_slam_ny_gov_andrew_cuomo_for_creating_unconstitutional_blacklist_of_bds_supporters/
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The new McCarthyism is pro-Israel: Legal groups slam NY Gov. Andrew Cuomo for creating (Original Post) Little Tich Jun 2016 OP
The usual Ben Norton article oberliner Jun 2016 #1
In my eagerness to find an article that reflected my anger at Cuomo's attacks on free speech, Little Tich Jun 2016 #4
LoL at hypocrite boycotters of Israel angry at being boycotted. shira Jun 2016 #2
This message was self-deleted by its author Little Tich Jun 2016 #3
Ben Norton ? King_David Jun 2016 #5
BDS groups prove Cuomo right; their goal is to destroy Israel.... shira Jun 2016 #6
I don't think that using one of the most extreme pro-Palestinian groups as a representative sample Little Tich Jun 2016 #7
this kind of law is common 6chars Jun 2016 #8
I'm not the only one who believes that Cuomo is attacking free speech. Little Tich Jun 2016 #14
Why not? Their position is your position in every way. They're just open about it. shira Jun 2016 #9
I don't like to be associated with racists, thank you. Little Tich Jun 2016 #15
Really? Mondoweiss supports the Free Palestine Movement & you like Mondoweiss.1 shira Jun 2016 #16
They represent BDS perfectly. Let's see any leaders within BDS come out..... shira Jun 2016 #12
Don't you wish all BDS'ers were this honest? aranthus Jun 2016 #10
It's why I respect Hamas more than the BDS clowns... shira Jun 2016 #11
The Palestinian leaders of BDS are almost as honest. aranthus Jun 2016 #13
You've got me there... Little Tich Jun 2016 #17
You're missing the point. aranthus Jun 2016 #18
I don't think boycotting Apartheid is anti-Semitic. Little Tich Jun 2016 #19
That belief seems nice but if implemented you know what would happen.... shira Jun 2016 #20
Israel has managed to absorb a large number of immigrants before without as much as a hiccup. Little Tich Jun 2016 #21

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
4. In my eagerness to find an article that reflected my anger at Cuomo's attacks on free speech,
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 06:01 AM
Jun 2016

I forgot to check the author.

Ben Norton has been published in Mondoweiss and Electronic Intifada apart from Salon, but I couldn't find anything about him or his writings that seemed inappropriate. I suppose you're just trying to deflect from the actual subject, which is whether it's OK or not to stifle people's right to express a political opinion.

Personally, I think that free speech is important, and that Cuomo should stop attacking it.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
2. LoL at hypocrite boycotters of Israel angry at being boycotted.
Wed Jun 8, 2016, 02:54 AM
Jun 2016

As to legality, businesses are not allowed to refuse servicing Blacks, Hispanics, Muslims, Jews, etc.

Same for BDS hate discrimination against the Jewish state.

Response to shira (Reply #2)

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
6. BDS groups prove Cuomo right; their goal is to destroy Israel....
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 10:43 AM
Jun 2016
http://freepalestinemovement.org/2016/06/08/please-boycott-us-governor-cuomo/

"....we wish to report and confirm that our corporation boycotts all Israeli products and services, and encourages other institutions, companies and individuals to cease and avoid all economic, academic and cultural activity that supports the racist state of Israel until that state dissolves itself, welcomes all Palestinians to return to their homes, restores all their property and pays damages for the harm it has done to Palestinians and their property."


Proving once more how racist and destructive the BDS movement is.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
7. I don't think that using one of the most extreme pro-Palestinian groups as a representative sample
Thu Jun 9, 2016, 08:25 PM
Jun 2016

for all of BDS is logically sound.

I know that it's easy to fall for simplified arguments like that, but don't be surprised if some people may disagree with you. It's quite significant that I haven't seen any qualified defense of Cuomo's attacks on free speech, not here on DU, nor anywhere else.

Do you have any opinion on whether Cuomo's bill is trying to curb free speech and its constitutionality?

6chars

(3,967 posts)
8. this kind of law is common
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 12:26 AM
Jun 2016

You are implicitly saying that an organization spending money is equal to speech. OK, the Supreme Court agrees with you on that, e.g., Citizen's United.

Nonetheless, governments often use laws to influence such actions. For example,
private organizations are free to spend their resources as they want as long as it does not violate criminal law, but they can't expect the government to want to do business with them.

Title IX: No person in the United States shall, on the basis of sex, be excluded from participation in, be denied the benefits of, or be subjected to discrimination under any education program or activity receiving federal financial assistance.


What about a business that refuses to serve gays? Isn't that speech? Well, no, they might be charged with violations of the Civil Rights Act, or other discrimination laws, and the government could also refuse to do business with them.

These laws have been tested and are constitutional. There are certainly people who disagree with them, and there are certainly opportunities for private organizations to do choose not to be open to the public at all and to act in ways that the rest of us may not approve, but even though they won't be jailed or fined, they can't expect government support.

Just because Ben Norton and friends may want the constitution to be against Israel, doesn't mean it is and sloppy reasoning won't make it so.

On another point, Ben Norton's introduction of "McCarthyism" to describe support of Israel is a new one, but not surprising. Zionists are now called every bad thing in the world: Apartheid, Fascist, Racist, Genocidal, Colonialist, Imperialist, and now McCarthyite. This is getting kind of transparent - the projection of all the sins of the modern world onto one small country.





Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
14. I'm not the only one who believes that Cuomo is attacking free speech.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 09:28 PM
Jun 2016

My opinion about Cuomo's bill is based on articles like these:

The Fight Against BDS Just Took A Frightening Turn In New York
Source: Thinkprogress, JUN 6, 2016

Through an executive order, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo (D) is going after a peaceful boycott movement fighting Israeli occupation — and many critics are worried his effort will seriously threaten free speech.

Cuomo declared that the order sends a strong message against the “hateful, intolerant campaign” of the Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions (BDS) Movement — a non-violent grassroots movement that first began in 2005 and places economic and political pressure on Israel to acknowledge Palestinian rights and end its illegal occupation of Palestinian territories. But many are concerned that the executive order goes a step too far.

The executive order requires the New York State Office of General Services to create a blacklist of institutions and companies involved in the BDS movement “using credible information available to the public” and make that list available to everyone online. All state agencies will be required to divest from such companies, which will have to submit “written evidence” to be appeal to be removed from the list.

Regardless of one’s position on BDS, the order could be concerning because it ultimately requires the blacklisted institutions to prove their own innocence or else face repercussions, and it punishes companies on the basis of their political beliefs.

http://thinkprogress.org/world/2016/06/06/3784963/new-york-cuomo-bds/


Debate: Is Cuomo's Crackdown on BDS Unconstitutional McCarthyism or a Stand Against Anti-Semitism?
Source: Democracy Now, JUNE 09, 2016
New York Governor Andrew Cuomo has issued the first-ever executive order forcing state agencies to divest from any organizations aligned with the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement. BDS is an international campaign to pressure Israel to comply with international law and respect Palestinian rights. However, its opponents say BDS is a thinly disguised anti-Semitic attempt to debilitate or even destroy Israel. Cuomo’s executive order forces state officials to make a list of businesses and groups who are engaged in activities targeting Israel. We speak to Rebecca Vilkomerson, executive director of Jewish Voice for Peace, and Robert Freedman, a visiting professor of political science at Johns Hopkins University and the former president of Baltimore Hebrew University.

Read more: http://www.democracynow.org/2016/6/9/debate_is_cuomos_crackdown_on_bds


Gov. Cuomo’s BDS Blacklist Is an Affront to Free Expression
Source: Common Dreams, June 10, 2016
New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo signed an executive order this week requiring state agencies and authorities to divest from any company or institution that supports the Boycotts, Divestment, and Sanctions movement targeting Israel. The order not only threatens to punish constitutionally protected political speech but also requires the state of New York to create a blacklist of allies of the movement, which BDS supporters describe as an effort to ensure human rights for Palestinians.

"Government can’t penalize people or entities on the basis of their free expression, and political boycotts are a form of free expression."
“It’s very simple: If you boycott against Israel, New York will boycott you,” Cuomo said when he announced the order.

The directive requires all agencies and departments over which the governor has executive authority as well as certain public benefit corporations, public authorities, boards, and commissions to divest funds from any company or institution supporting BDS. The entities are also banned from investing in those companies in the future.

The order itself makes clear that the activity the governor wants to punish is political in nature. But, as the Supreme Court made clear, government can’t penalize people or entities on the basis of their free expression, and political boycotts are a form of free expression.

Read more: http://www.commondreams.org/views/2016/06/10/gov-cuomos-bds-blacklist-affront-free-expression


Why Andrew Cuomo Is Worst Possible Face of the Anti-BDS Movement
Source: The Forward, June 6, 2016
Pro-Israel activists who are battling the Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions movement (BDS) against the Israeli military occupation of Palestinian territory emphasize the freedom and democracy of Israeli society and juxtapose it to the intolerance of the BDS movement. With his new anti-BDS bill, New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo has made it that much harder for activists to take the moral high ground.

The measure couldn’t find its way through the state legislature, so Cuomo took to Twitter and announced that he would issue an executive order banning the state from doing business with groups that boycott Israel.

Cuomo’s fierce advocacy for Israel is unsurprising. He has an eye on the White House and, as a well known Democrat with a host of conservative views, a fierce anti-BDS position works well to get the support of establishment Democrats who fear the leftward shift in the party marked by Bernie Sanders’s presidential campaign. Indeed Israel was Cuomo’s first choice of foreign destination as governor, signaling that the interests of Israel were deeply tied his state.

But if Cuomo’s maverick stance on BDS has any effect, it would be to move the anti-BDS movement into illiberal territory. This is not new territory for Cuomo, whose tenure has included advocacy for fracking (although he did finally give in due to environmentalist pressure), privatizing public education, demanding punishing monetary concessions from state worker unions, using New York City’s public university funding as a political football against New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio and fighting New York City’s universal pre-K program.

Read more: http://forward.com/opinion/342037/why-andrew-cuomo-is-worst-possible-face-of-the-anti-bds-movement/


Andrew Cuomo Would Have Blacklisted Muhammad Ali
Source: Democratic Underground, Jun 9, 2016 / The Nation
Governor Cuomo’s executive action to create a blacklist of those who stand with the Palestinian people would have undoubtedly caught Muhammad Ali in its web.

Read more: http://www.democraticunderground.com/10027891818
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
9. Why not? Their position is your position in every way. They're just open about it.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 03:07 AM
Jun 2016

As to Cuomo, I find this similar to many US states not wanting to do business with North Carolina after that state passed legislation discriminating against LGBTQ's. In a very similar way, BDS discriminates against the Jewish nation - and only the Jewish nation so there's no reason NY state needs to do business with certain organizations discriminating against the Jewish state.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
15. I don't like to be associated with racists, thank you.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 09:58 PM
Jun 2016

BDS is about ending Israeli Human rights abuses in the occupied territories, and there's no actual BDS being done against any company that isn't connected to the occupation or the settlements. The only anti-BDS list sofar is the one from Illinois which only has companies that refrain from doing business with the settlements on its list:


Source: http://forward.com/news/338058/did-illinois-bungle-first-in-nation-anti-bds-blacklist/

While there are some superficial similarities between the Free Palestine Movement and other pro-Palestinian organizations, that particular organization is a racist organization with murky goals. It's not mainstream, as most pro-Palestinian advocacy are against racism and human rights violations, and BDS is a tool for that.

You've tried to argue that BDS is racist on several occasions, and every time you've been completely unsuccessful. At least you've managed to prove that some racists support BDS too, but it doesn't make BDS in itself a racist endeavor as long as it doesn't target companies because they're Jewish.

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
16. Really? Mondoweiss supports the Free Palestine Movement & you like Mondoweiss.1
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 04:06 AM
Jun 2016
http://mondoweiss.net/2016/06/please-boycott-governor/

You say we've argued "unsuccessfully" that BDS is racist and yet you like Mondoweiss.

Please explain.
 

shira

(30,109 posts)
12. They represent BDS perfectly. Let's see any leaders within BDS come out.....
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:52 AM
Jun 2016

....against the Palestine Solidarity Movement (PSM) or ISM. Where are they? Show me.

Mondoweiss supports them, so does ElectronicIntifada, JVP, SJP, ACRI, Max Blumenthal, Jeremy Corbyn, David Duke, Alison Weir of IfAmericansKnew, Hamas, Hezbollah and every other gutter anti-semite associated with or working alongside the BDS movement.

But prove me wrong, please. I'm begging you....

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
11. It's why I respect Hamas more than the BDS clowns...
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 11:47 AM
Jun 2016

At least Hamas is honest & everyone knows where they're coming from.

Of course, most BDS'ers support and defend Hamas...pretending that equates to support of Palestinians in general.

aranthus

(3,386 posts)
13. The Palestinian leaders of BDS are almost as honest.
Fri Jun 10, 2016, 01:08 PM
Jun 2016

Barghouti at least admits that if BDS goals were achieved that there wouldn't be an Israel.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
17. You've got me there...
Sat Jun 11, 2016, 09:37 PM
Jun 2016

I support some of the articles that are published in Mondoweiss, so when the Association for Investment in Popular Action Committees, which in some way supports the Free Palestine Movement, publishes an open letter protesting against Cuomo's unconstitutional clampdown on free speech, I'm suddenly connected to the FPM and apparently their views are my views...

Well, that explains why you think BDS is anti-Semitic - apparently, if a single person who supports BDS is a racist, then everyone who supports BDS are racists... I think your linkage is weak, and it doesn't match reality - I'm not an anti-Semite and I don't share the beliefs of the FPM...

But back to the OP - do you think that the right to free speech is outdated and should be outlawed altogether?

aranthus

(3,386 posts)
18. You're missing the point.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 04:51 PM
Jun 2016

In fact, you've got it backwards. The reason that BDS attracts antisemites is because it is antisemitic at its core. Suppose you are not an antisemite? Does that change the nature of the movement just because you're not antisemitic? Of course it doesn't. You are one person. What you think of the movement doesn't really matter as far as the movement is concerned. What matters is what the leadership of the movement believe, and how they lead. BDS was formed by the Palestinians as a weapon to use against Israel's existence. That's why the movement calls for implementation of Right of Return. Until that changes, then the movement is antisemitic. Does that mean that everyone who supports BDS is antisemitc? Not necessarily. It does mean that they support an antisemitic movement, either with or without knowledge of the true nature of BDS. But you don't really have the excuse that you don't know, because it has been explained to you ad nauseum.

Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
19. I don't think boycotting Apartheid is anti-Semitic.
Sat Jun 18, 2016, 09:31 PM
Jun 2016

And I don't think that allowing Palestinians to return to their ancestral homeland is anti-Semitic either.

I believe that every person should have equal rights in the land they live, and also that every person should have the right to live in their ancestral homeland - those beliefs are not anti-Semitic...

 

shira

(30,109 posts)
20. That belief seems nice but if implemented you know what would happen....
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 06:35 AM
Jun 2016

You can't even name one popular Palestinian - a leader you identify with, someone you admire - which shows the danger of Palestinian right of return. You know how that would lead to more strife, more terror, killing.

If you can't identify or support even one Palestinian whose views you agree with - why would you expect Israelis to embrace millions of people you wouldn't want to engage with? In effect as well as intent (since it's been proven to you ad nauseum) you support a situation that endangers Jews both within Israel and outside it. If Jews lose control of Israel, we truly have nowhere to go to be safe.

And that's why BDS is considered antisemitic at its core.

Now how are we wrong?




Little Tich

(6,171 posts)
21. Israel has managed to absorb a large number of immigrants before without as much as a hiccup.
Sun Jun 19, 2016, 08:13 AM
Jun 2016

There's nothing that says that Israel won't be able to build housing and provide jobs for future immigrants of Palestinian descent.

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