Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumSenior rabbi condemns IDF for accommodating LGBT 'perverts'
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4829206,00.htmlReligious-Zionist Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, head of a distinguished IDF preparatory yeshiva, accused, via homophobic rhetoric, the army of seeking to silence one 'worldview' and promote another.
Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, a central educational figure in the religious sector, called LGBT persons "perverts" at a conference on Monday and condemned the IDF for having permitted them to insert their worldview in the military system. The revelation of his remarks comes at the end of the week following the cancellation of the Be'er Sheva Pride parade and the uncovering of homophobic remarks from the incoming chief rabbi of the IDF.
The rabbinical conference that Levinstein was addressing was against "the reform of the "Effect of the reform of the State of Israel's identity." Levinstein said, regarding LGBT persons, "There's a crazy movement here of people who have just lost the normalcy of life, and this group is driving an entire country crazy. It's going into the army at full strength, and nobody dares open their mouth to speak up."
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6chars
(3,967 posts)Is what they meant
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)Since you’ve come out in the army, how do you deal with people who are less familiar or less understanding of the LGBT community?
The army has been very accommodating, and everyone from my coworkers to my high-ranking officers support me. The army takes in everybody and has soldiers from all over. This can sometimes be challenging, but I think the main point is that you have to come at that with patience, and realize that not everybody comes from the same background. Not everybody holds the same beliefs, and that’s fine. I try to understand that and answer questions when I can. It’s important to be honest with yourself and not apologize for who you are.
https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2016/06/03/youre-alright-dont-change-idf-soldier-gay-religious/
This interview is hosted on the IDF's official website.
Israeli
(4,300 posts)Haaretz Editorial
Jul 16, 2016
The words of Rabbi Yig’al Levenstein, cofounder of the premilitary academy in the West Bank settlement of Eli, clearly demonstrate the culture war now being fought in Israel – between those who seek equal rights and freedoms, and those who sanctify the hatred and persecution of the other.
At a conference in Jerusalem last Wednesday devoted to “dealing with the impact of Reform Judaism on Israel’s Jewish nature,” Levenstein said that the values of the Israel Defense Forces, led by its Education Corps, have changed. This is reflected, he said, by educating toward religious pluralism and recognition of the LGBT community, describing the latter as “perverts.” “It is an insane movement whose members have lost the normalcy of life. This group makes the country mad and has now penetrated the IDF in full force – and no one dares voice an opinion and mock it. In the army’s officer training base, there are even lectures given by perverts,” he added.
Levenstein is the latest link in a chain of religious-Zionist leaders who believe they need to dictate to the rest of Israel their narrow interpretation of the past, present and future. Such a confusion of values and misconceptions can only flourish with the support of the government, which allocates their budgets and promotes their followers.
Continued @ : http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/1.731392
King_David
(14,851 posts)And this fuckwit of a Rabbi , who should be fired immediately, reminds us why...
( Pinkwashing? LOL )
Kol Hakavod...to the IDF
Israeli
(4,300 posts)Statements by leading Zionist-Orthodox rabbis against gays and in support of the exclusion of women from the army reflect the growing war of culture waged in Israel, between liberals and those who aspire for a more Jewish-religious state.
Author Ben Caspit
Posted July 18, 2016
Read more: http://www.al-monitor.com/pulse/originals/2016/07/israel-religious-zionism-war-for-control-of-the-idf.html#ixzz4F18UMOky
The Zion and Jerusalem Conference at which Levenstein spoke was dedicated to “the infiltration of Reform Jewry into the State of Israel.” The issues discussed at the conference reflect the growing exacerbation of the culture war waged in Israel almost since its very inception in 1948: the war between liberals and conservatives; the secular and the religious; and pragmatic Israelis and messianic Israelis.
The opinions expressed by Karim and Levenstein have generated many reactions and raised a giant storm in the Israeli media and the Israeli public agenda. It is noteworthy that most of the rabbis who responded negated the interpretation of their words and the general tone. They made it clear that Judaism must not be allowed to get between the soldiers and their commanders, and religious beliefs should not be a factor in IDF-related internal issues or operational orders. The problem is that a not insignificant number of these rabbis secretly support the stances of Karim and Levenstein and are determined to win the culture war that is running riot in Israel.
Israeli
(4,300 posts)ref : quote ....
And this fuckwit of a Rabbi , who should be fired immediately, reminds us why...
( Pinkwashing? LOL )
Leading Zionist Rabbis Protest 'Abomination' of Jerusalem Gay Pride Parade
Leaders of the Hardali faction have denounced Thursday’s event, though a number of religious-Zionists activists will take part.
Yair Ettinger Jul 20, 2016
Israeli rabbis who are both Zionist and ultra-Orthodox have published a letter opposing Thursday’s gay pride parade in Jerusalem, calling the event a “parade of abomination.”
The president of Jerusalem’s Har Hamor Yeshiva, Rabbi Zvi Tau, published the letter Wednesday with Rabbi Shlomo Aviner, the head of the Ateret Yerushalayim Yeshiva in the Old City’s Muslim Quarter.
The two are Hardali, a Hebrew acronym for ultra-Orthodox (Haredi) and national religious. In their letter, they “protest the parade of abomination in our city, the holy city of Jerusalem.”
“We are protesting even more strongly the terrible desecration of God’s name; they are bringing in sinners from abroad to participate in this abomination in our holy city,” the rabbis wrote.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.732317
King_David
(14,851 posts)IDF to re-examine professional relationship with anti-gay rabb
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4830528,00.html
“You’re alright. Don’t change.” An IDF soldier on being out, gay, and religious
https://www.idfblog.com/blog/2016/06/03/youre-alright-dont-change-idf-soldier-gay-religious/
Oh boy , kind of destroys the narrative now....LOL
shira
(30,109 posts)Israeli
(4,300 posts)I posted the same link 3 hours before you did ....see post # 29 .
What " narrative " would that be ????????
King_David
(14,851 posts)The OP was posted for a reason .
I posted more than one link .
FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Please provide Palestinian sources that are more progressive than this position.
Last I read, polling of Palestinians had "immoral" over "moral" by 94-1 on this issue and gay Palestinians flee to Israel for safety.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Yep.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The Palestinian government in the Gaza Palestinian statelet just murdered one of their very own commanders - you know why ?
Because he was Gay ....they fucking murdered their own commander because he was Gay .
Hamas Commander, Accused of Theft and Gay Sex, Is Killed by His Own
http://mobile.nytimes.com/2016/03/02/world/middleeast/hamas-commander-mahmoud-ishtiwi-killed-palestine.html
This homophobia may be a laughing matter to you , but it's taken seriously by us progressives and the Democratic Party...
Your casual , mocking of this extreme bigoted murderous homophobia is not appreciated.
FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Did they call him "perverted" or didn't they? That's the true offense here.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The IDF should be proud to be accused of being the most Gay friendly army in the world.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)while ignoring the OP.
Yes, I know, if I mention Israel then some must scream "Hamas."
Funny thing is I don't put Hamas on a pedestal in any form while some do that constantly for apartheid Israel.
FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Nobody is ignoring the OP.
This is the I/P group - with an SOP of "Discuss issues surrounding the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians". You've posted an article about a bigoted Israeli. Obviously you intended it to make a statement in the context of "the conflict between Israelis and Palestinians"... right? You think it says something about the conflict in general or Israelis in particular.
Apart from Laughter at your blindness to what it really says... It's entirely reasonable to point out that:
* It's clear evidence that the IDF in particular (and Israel in general) is not bigoted in this regard since the bigot is criticizing them for just the opposite
* The Ministry of Defense, Ministry of Education, Cabinet ministers, leaders of Likud and even the nationalist Jewish Home (as well as Israelis of all stripes) came out instantaneously to oppose his bigotry.
* It's hardly just Hamas. The poll I mentioned was 94% of Palestinians similarly bigoted, with only 1% standing with gays. If this one guy says something about Israel... surely the 94% says far more about the Palestinians.
* Zero Palestinian leadership opposing the position publicly
* The Palestinians are actually actively killing gays (to applause... not criticism)
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Palestinians".
Nope. I added no comentary. You're not that savy WRT reading a simple OP.
FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Apparently it didn't mean anything at all. Just a posting version of Tourette's syndrome
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Last edited Wed Jul 20, 2016, 05:45 AM - Edit history (1)
it woukd have been locked as off topic...but you know this very well.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)As is usual with this shit, you can't seem to do anything but to point everywhere than where the OP was pointing.
Yes, we all get it. Hamas is evil.
What's Israel's excuse?
King_David
(14,851 posts)This is a Rabbi accusing Israel or the IDF of being too Gay friendly.
This Rabbi is a fanatic fuckwit bigot.
You clearly don't understand, do you?
There's lessons for all religious fundamentalist bigots - just like the religious bigot who just murdrred 49 of us recently in Orlando.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)Their illegal settlements pepper the Palestinian lands.
They continually harass muslims, destroy their property, kill their children.
Take the blinders off for once and see reality.
King_David
(14,851 posts)The Jewish people lag other fanatic religious bigots in that department .
A major religious fanatic just killed 49 of us in Orlando... In the name of religion many more of us have been pushed off buildings in Iraq and Syria.
A lot of us have been killed in Gaza and recently in that Palestinian statelet , the government killed one of their own top commanders because he was accused of being Gay.
R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts)
Israeli
(4,300 posts)How is it that as the Western democracies struggle to improve the war on fundamentalism, we bow our heads to it, bring it into the army, fund it and subsidize it?
Uri Misgav Jul 21, 2016
I’d like to explain once and for all what I feel about Rabbi Yigal Levinstein. I think a great many decent Israelis feel as I do, and I hope to be able to speak for them. I’d like to do this unbound by the strictures of political correctness; those strictures only ever apply to one side anyway.
(snip)
His worldview is clear and comprehensive. It doesn’t only include gay people. He has a whole doctrine. His doctrine patently and knowingly upends the basic foundations of society and the army in a democratic country, and seeks to undermine it.
I consider him a direct threat to me and everything I hold dear. I have no dialogue with him, no bridge, no shared fate. What do I have in common with him? He’s a son of the Kingdom of Judah and I’m a citizen of the State of Israel.
When I see Levinstein, I understand for the umpteenth time that while I was growing up, going to school, serving in the army, traveling the world, attending university, making a living, paying taxes, establishing a home and raising children, a fundamentalist monster was growing in my backyard.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/opinion/.premium-1.732637
FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Hard to keep up with the hypocrisy double standard, isn't it?
King_David
(14,851 posts)R. Daneel Olivaw
(12,606 posts) FBaggins
(27,714 posts)Think anyone can't tell why that is?
Hmmm?
ericson00
(2,707 posts)nice try to demonize Israel from a "progressive" standpoint, tho.
Little Tich
(6,171 posts)Source: Haaretz
Statement slamming 'attempts to silence Israel’s rabbis' signed in support of Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, saying there's no place to legitimize 'phenomena and behavior that clearly contradict the spirit of the Torah of Israel.'
About 250 rabbis, mostly members of the Haredi-Nationalist religious camp published a statement on Wednesday in support of Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, who was widely criticized after calling homosexual people "perverts."
In the statement, the rabbis denounced what they termed "an attempt to silence Israel’s rabbis," and voiced support for another rabbi who referred to gay people as "handicapped" following Levinstein's remarks.
"We want to express support for any rabbi who sincerely and unapologetically expresses his halachic and moral opinion in adherence to the Torah and the sages," the statement reads, adding that "there is no place for legitimizing phenomena and behavior that clearly contradict the spirit of the Torah of Israel."
The statement followed a backlash against Levinstein, the head of an IDF pre-conscription academy at the settlement of Eli. "There’s an insane movement here whose members have lost the normalcy of life. This group makes the country mad and has now penetrated the IDF in full force – and no one dares open their mouth and speak out against it. At Bahad 1, there are lectures by perverts,” Levinstein said, referring to the army’s main officers' training base. His remarks were criticized across the board and he was barred from IDF bases. Israel’s main LGBT organization also filed a police complaint against him.
Read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/1.732372
Israeli
(4,300 posts)Gili Cohen
Jul 19, 2016
The Israel Defense Forces has banned a controversial rabbi from its bases and says he must retract statements such as calling gay people “perverts,” military sources say.
Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, the co-head of a premilitary academy, has also criticized the army’s efforts to avoid harming civilians. In videotaped remarks, he has said such a policy “shows a development of delegitimizing combat.”
Levinstein and Rabbi Eli Sadan, an Israel Prize winner, co-head a premilitary academy in the West Bank settlement of Eli.
Military sources say the IDF’s personnel chief, Maj. Gen. Hagai Topolansky, told Sadan that the army expects to hear clarifications from Levinstein.
The rabbi has sometimes been invited to bases by the military rabbinate, though he has not lectured to soldiers in recent years.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.731993
Israeli
(4,300 posts)Yair Ettinger and Gili Cohen Jul 21, 2016
Defense Ministry Director General Udi Adam held a meeting Thursday with the heads of a premilitary religious academy after one of them criticized the army for drafting gays and lesbians and teaching about the LGBT community in officers’ school.
Adam called the remarks of Rabbi Yigal Levinstein, who together with Rabbi Eli Sadan founded and now lead the Bnei David Academy, unacceptable to the Israel Defense Forces and the defense establishment and asked him to clarify them.
Speaking at a conference in Jerusalem on Wednesday, Levinstein repeatedly referred to gays as “perverts.”
“‘The Spirit of the IDF,’ the army’s ethics code, specifies ‘human dignity’ as the fundamental, supreme moral value. All human beings are of inherent value regardless of race, creed, nationality, gender, status or role,” Adam told the men, according to a Defense Ministry statement.
“There is no doubt that excluding the lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender community from society contradicts the most fundamental IDF values,” Adam added.
read more: http://www.haaretz.com/israel-news/.premium-1.732507