Last edited Wed Sep 7, 2016, 06:08 AM - Edit history (2)

The only reason to call Israel a settler colonial state is to deny Jews are indigenous to the land, deny their history there, etc.

The BDS movement is far and away a proven settler, colonial movement. No doubt about it.

Own it.

who magically replaced the original population. It's a complete lie and he knows it. This "replacement theory" is popular among racists, and is a Palestinian version of the "Jews are Khazars" theory. I've never encountered this myth outside of racist argumentation, including this OP.

If the OP is spreading racist lies, what's the point of discussing it?

Spokesman saying Palestinians are Saudis and Egyptians

They're racially distinct in some way from Jordanians/Syrians/etc.?

Jews being colonist invaders, non-indigenous, not a people, etc...

Fortunately, technological advances in DNA analysis has made both myths obsolete.

...are colonial settlers, Jews are not a people, therefore there should be no Israel in existence.

Nothing to do with Khazars.

Now what's your answer?

There isn't much difference between Palestinians and Jordanians or Syrians in their language, history, and culture. That's what makes nations.

And that is why it doesn't matter much that some Palestinians are descendants of Canaanite tribes. (So are the Jews). What matters is that the Jews are the CULTURAL descendants of the Israelites, who were the Canaanite tribes unified by the Hebrews into a single nation. Palestinians are the cultural descendants of Arabs from Arabia.

Another point is that the Palestinians don't need to prove that they are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites to establish that they have a right to a state in some part of the Holy Land. They have that right by virtue of being a separate people (even if they are closely related to other Arabs). The only reason that they "need" to prove that they were there before the Jews is to deny the Jews their right to a state. Unfortunately, that is what Palestinianism is about.

It seems as if most Palestinians want to live there, and that you think that they shouldn't be allowed to do so...

I will quote the relevant part again:

"Another point is that the Palestinians don't need to prove that they are the genetic descendants of the Canaanites to establish that they have a right to a state in some part of the Holy Land. They have that right by virtue of being a separate people (even if they are closely related to other Arabs)."

It is a mystery to me how you can ask if I am, "suggesting that Palestinians don't have a right to live in their ancestral homeland?" I very plainly said the opposite. What seems to be clear from your posts is that you don't believe that the Jews should be allowed to have a separate national identity (that means a Jewish state) in some part of their homeland, all so that the Arabs can have it all.

You're a Leftist, and anyone who disagrees with you is a racist. What a load of crap. No the OP is not a lie. It is historical fact. Yes, genetic connection between Palestinians and Jews, but I really don't understand why you are so enamored of that. The truth is that most of the Arab inhabitants of Palestine are descendants of Arabs who arrived after the indigenous inhabitants were expelled. Many during and after the 1800's. So what? Why does that give them the exclusive right to all of the land?

just like Jordanians and Syrians are descended from people living in Jordan and Syria since prehistory - at least that's what science has taught us.

Perhaps drinking too much hasbara Kool-Aid has dulled your senses?

Do you think Palestinians are indigenous to Israel?

to Israel...

But in your opinion, do you think that Jews are indigenous to Israel?

But for some reason you don't want to say they're indigenous. You don't want to define Indigenous.

Why?

And once again - without deflecting - why is it racist to question Palestinian indigenous status but not Jewish?

Because it sure looks like you know what the answer is and it's just inconvenient.

Just because a person is an Arab doesn't mean that they're descended from Arabs. There are Arab Jews, you know...

But please tell what you think about the part of the OP that I posted in #12 - is it a lie?

... you seem to have your own definitions for lots of words.

And let's be clear. There is no doubt that at least some of the Palestinians can trace at least some of their ancestry to the Canaanite tribes. But what does that mean? How much of a connection is there? If Palestinians are say, 5% Canaanite and 95% Arab, is that enough for them to have a right to the whole territory? More importantly, why don't the Jews have a right to a state? It seems as if you are more interested in the genetics of people rather than their culture and national identity. Not only is that truly racist; it doesn't make any sense with regard to the right to statehood. States are cultural artifacts aren't they? Aren't they designed to promote and protect cultural and national ideals and values? So why should genetics trump culture?

learn the facts:

Blood Brothers: Palestinians and Jews Share Genetic Roots
Source: Haaretz, Oct 20, 2015

Maybe you think that you need to believe that those who disagree with you are racist (perhaps to cover your own racism). I don't know and I don't care. In fact I don't much care about race at all. But you seem to care very much that the Palestinians are lineal genetic descendants of the Canaanites. I'm trying to understand why. What does it matter?

For the record, the studies you incompletely cite don't prove your point. All they show is that the closest genetic neighbors of Jews include Palestinians. Since both Jews and Palestinians are semites that's something anyone should expect. So what? Why does that give the Palestinians the right to all of Israel?

Any other arguments in the OP are completely unimportant. And I'm not dumb enough to make any political arguments based on the ancestry of anyone. Political arguments based on the ancestry of people are always meaningless.

But the West Bank settler project can't be called anything else.

Settling the West Bank does nothing to make Israel a more secure country, and is a major drag on the Israeli economy. It's not about anything but an ideological "want".

The settlements were never worth making it harder to achieve peace.

....in their historic homeland is bigotry. And let's face it, those who do call it colonialism want nothing less than the ethnic cleansing of all Jews from every part of historic Judea. Pure antisemitism.

It would have been the exact same reaction if any OTHER group had come in and started acting as if the land was theirs and no one else's, and as if the people who were being dispossessed had no connection to the land of their own.

Ben-Gurion spent his last years opposing the idea of settling the West Bank(the government waited until AFTER he died to start).

Look, I agree that the original pre-1948 Jewish inhabitants of the area, the people who were driven out by Jordan, not the Palestinians(a group that had no real say over the matter and who themselves had never wanted those folks driven out)should be allowed right of return(and should get the "acknowledgment, apologies, compensation" package that I've called for for Palestinian exiles), but why bring in people from other countries on other continents who themselves had no direct connection to what the right wing calls "Judea and Samaria" to treat the place as if it should be their personal and exclusive domain? Why bring in religious and political extremists, some of whom wanted nothing BUT conflict? Why not just send in the pre-1948'ers and leave it at that?

Can you not see how sending in over 250,000 people, letting those people divert much of the available water supply, take the best land, uproot the ancient olive trees Palestinians had tended for centuries to be replanted ON the setlements, and lay out their settlements in such a way as to make it impossible for Palestinians to get from one part of their homeland to another without having to go through checkpoint after checkpoint after checkpoint just MIGHT make the situation worse?

Could you at least concede, if nothing else, that the whole settlement project was carried out in a far more heavy-handed and insensitive manner than it needed to be?

We're coming very close to the situation in which the creation of a Palestinian state in the West Bank will be impossible, due to all the land the settlements hold. If the creation of a Palestinian state is made impossible, any possibility of peace forever vanishes. Are you ok with that?

I'm not disagreeing with you on the wisdom of settlements.

But when colonialism is brought up, the implication is that Jews aren't indigenous to parts of their historic homeland. That Jews don't belong in Judea. The BDS movement doesn't believe Jews have a right to any homeland of their own, even within the '67 lines. It's pure antisemitism.

And remember, BDS is not going to be a party to any negotiations, so they can't actually impose anything on anyone.

They are nonviolently protesting the injustices done to Palestinians.

I'm not sure anyone could still do that within all the constraints YOU want to impose on dissent on that subject.

And the right to a homeland for the world's Jewish communites is covered, to my mind, by the right to the pre-1967 state, with that state allowed to live in peace.

Why should it HAVE to include "Judea and Samaria&quot other than repatriating the pre-1967 Jewish population)when those areas have had an Arab majority for 1400 years? Why is asserting the right to live in THAT specific area more important than creating the conditions in which Israel COULD live in peace with the countries around it? And why is it worth life nearly intolerable for everyone else who lives there?

No point continuing this silliness.

Hamas and the PA have made it clear they hate Jews and support terrorists who target Jews. They don't want any living in Gaza or the W.Bank & they do not believe the Jews are entitled to a homeland of their own in any part of Israel. The BDS movement sympathizes with that racism & agrees with it, so at least be honest about that.

And no, it's not about hating Israel or Israelis as the PA and Hamas don't have a problem with Arab Israelis, just the Jewish ones. Just be honest, okay?

And Fatah DID recognize Israel in 1994, so it's not as simple as you paint it.

It's not possible to end this by either an Israeli OR a Palestinian military victory.

I know little about the Israeli-Palestine conflict but this seems to be a well ballanced and thoughtful article.