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Israel/Palestine
Related: About this forumPA: Denial of Jewish history 'victory for Palestinian people'
Interesting to see how Fatah (and Hamas too) praise UNESCO's vote as a denial of Jewish history. This is pure anti-semitism. And of course all BDS bigots support the UNESCO decision 100%, proving once again how antizionism = antisemitism.
PA: Denial of Jewish history 'victory for Palestinian people'
A Fatah press release said that the importance of the decision lies in its content, specifically that it denies any historical connection between Jews and Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4866275,00.html
A Fatah press release said that the importance of the decision lies in its content, specifically that it denies any historical connection between Jews and Jerusalem and the Temple Mount.
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-4866275,00.html
Fatah press release:
...It signed the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Resolution (UNESCO), issued last Thursday to deny the existence of any religious association of Jews Al-Aqsa Mosque and the Western Wall, a thunderbolt on Israel's extremist government and settler zealots in which they are working day and night on the Judaization of Al-Haram Al-Sharif...
https://www.facebook.com/Official.Fateh.1965/photos/a.1591709777754363.1073741828.1591249977800343/1769613806630625/?type=3&theater
See how this works?
No Jewish Temple, no Jewish rights. The propaganda is true & the "world" admits Jews have no right to the area. Thus, terror attacks are justified, Israel has no right to exist, etc... This resolution does nothing to further peace. In fact it does the opposite.
Vile.
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PA: Denial of Jewish history 'victory for Palestinian people' (Original Post)
shira
Oct 2016
OP
shira
(30,109 posts)1. OIC welcomes UNESCO resolution that denies Jewish history
More outright antisemitism.
The General Secretariat stressed that this resolution was an expression of the condemnation and rejection by the international community ofall Israeli occupation policies and actions, designed to cover up historical facts and deny the inalienable political, cultural and religious rights of the Palestinian people in Jerusalem, the capital of the State of Palestine.
http://www.oic-oci.org/oicv3/topic/?t_id=11705&t_ref=4595&lan=en
shira
(30,109 posts)2. J-Street: UNESCO vote shows contempt for Jewish People's Ties to Temple Mount
J Street is profoundly disappointed by todays adoption by member states of the United Nations Educational, Scientific and Cultural Organization (UNESCO) Executive Board of a resolution that outrageously seeks to rewrite history by erasing the Jewish peoples deep historical and religious ties to the Temple Mount, known in Hebrew as Har HaBayit.
http://jstreet.org/press-releases/resolution-adopted-unesco-member-states-shows-contempt-jewish-peoples-ties-temple-mount/
http://jstreet.org/press-releases/resolution-adopted-unesco-member-states-shows-contempt-jewish-peoples-ties-temple-mount/
shira
(30,109 posts)3. Abbas advisor: "Jerusalem... and the (Western Wall)... are all purely Islamic"
shira
(30,109 posts)4. Jerusalem mufti: Temple Mount never housed Jewish Temple
Sheikh Muhammad Ahmad Hussein says Al-Aqsa Mosque has been atop disputed holy site since creation of the world
http://www.timesofisrael.com/jerusalem-mufti-denies-temple-mount-ever-housed-jewish-shrine/
shira
(30,109 posts)5. Abbas’ Temple Denial
Speaking in Qatar on Feb. 26, at an Arab League conference, Palestinian Authority President Mahmoud Abbas resumed the Palestinian attack on the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem. This diplomatic strategy began with his predecessor, Yasser Arafat, who questioned whether the Temple ever existed at the end of the July 2000 Camp David summit: There is nothing there. Then U.S. President Bill Clinton was stunned. Arafat then asserted that Solomons Temple was in Nablus, not in Jerusalem. Two years later in leading pan-Arab newspaper al-Hayat, Arafat continued: They found not a single stone proving the Temple was there
A month after Camp David, Abbas himself continued with Arafats ideological position on the Temple in an Israeli-Arab weekly, adding: they claim that 2,000 years ago they had a temple. I challenge the claim that this is so. In fact, many of the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, who are perceived as moderate in the West, also began repeating this same theme. Nabil Shaath spoke to al-Ayyam and spoke about the Israeli claim that its fictitious temple once stood in Jerusalem.
Chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, also declared: For Islam, there never was a Temple at al-Quds, but a distant mosque. Yasser Abd Rabbo told Le Monde, in September 2000, There was no archaeological evidence that the Temple ever existed on the Temple Mount. He added during an appearance on Palestinian television, broadcast on March 16, 2010, that Israel was planning to build the false Temple in order to fulfill a legend.
Now, Abbas is once again renewing this line of attack in Qatar, challenging whether there was any proof of Jewish historical claims. Despite all the enormous capabilities that the occupation authorities made available to the extremists who engage in never-ending digging [and] threaten to make al-Aqsa look less significant and vindicate the Israeli narrative, they have failed miserably. After making this point, he added that the Israeli authorities were preparing models of what they call the Temple, in order to build it on the ruins of al-Aqsa.
It was noticeable that Abbas could not bring himself to make reference to the Temple as a historical fact, but had to say what they call the Temple, which indicated he was not prepared to say it had ever existed. He also adopted the decades-old lie that Israel had a plan to endanger the al-Aqsa mosque.
Since Arafat first told Clinton that there never was a Temple, there has been a full-scale effort over the last decade, on the part of the Palestinian leadership, to make this idea of Temple denial take root through programs on Palestinian television, articles in the official Palestinian Authority newspapers, and mosque sermons that aim to deny the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem. In 2009, Palestinian religious leaders repeatedly declared that no evidence had been found that could prove a historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem or that the Temple had ever existed.
So what is going on here? This is not just a question of education. If during one of his many trips to Rome, Abbas actually went to the Arch of Titus and viewed the engravings of the looted vessels from the Temple, including the Menorah, being carried in a Roman victory parade, it would not change his mind. Nor would it help if Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan guided Abbas to a museum in Istanbul to see a 2,000-year-old plaque from the Temple Mount warning foreigners not to enter the Temple area (Erdogan may not even be aware of what is in this Turkish museum). Ultimately, this is not a matter of establishing what is historical truth. Instead, the almost obsessive Palestinian preoccupation with denying Israels ties to Jerusalem is actually a new kind of political warfare they have decided to wage.
The Palestinians keenly understand the importance of Jerusalem to Israel perhaps better than some on the Israeli side. They know that, historically, Jerusalem has had an essential role to play in the formation of Israeli identity. In any military struggle, a clear strategic objective is to strike at an adversarys center of gravity, after which its collapse would be almost inevitable. Abbas envoy to Lebanon, Abbas Zaki, said on May 7, 2009, that if Israel were to withdraw from Jerusalem, the Zionist idea would begin to collapse. Thus, the purpose of their present assault on Jerusalems history is to strike at Israels center of gravity and weaken the foundations of the Jewish state.
The Palestinian Authority leaders have observed that most of the assertions they have made about Israel in recent years like comparing it to apartheid South Africa eventually get accepted without question or criticism. They have every reason to hope that the denial of the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem will gain supporters worldwide.
Israel needs to understand the contours of the new battle that has been imposed on it. It needs to insist that its representatives understand and learn for themselves Israels historical rights. These rights were well known to the generation of Abba Eban and Chaim Herzog, but unfortunately they have been forgotten in the recent past at a time when they have become more relevant for the defense of Israel than ever.
A month after Camp David, Abbas himself continued with Arafats ideological position on the Temple in an Israeli-Arab weekly, adding: they claim that 2,000 years ago they had a temple. I challenge the claim that this is so. In fact, many of the leaders of the Palestinian Authority, who are perceived as moderate in the West, also began repeating this same theme. Nabil Shaath spoke to al-Ayyam and spoke about the Israeli claim that its fictitious temple once stood in Jerusalem.
Chief Palestinian negotiator, Saeb Erekat, also declared: For Islam, there never was a Temple at al-Quds, but a distant mosque. Yasser Abd Rabbo told Le Monde, in September 2000, There was no archaeological evidence that the Temple ever existed on the Temple Mount. He added during an appearance on Palestinian television, broadcast on March 16, 2010, that Israel was planning to build the false Temple in order to fulfill a legend.
Now, Abbas is once again renewing this line of attack in Qatar, challenging whether there was any proof of Jewish historical claims. Despite all the enormous capabilities that the occupation authorities made available to the extremists who engage in never-ending digging [and] threaten to make al-Aqsa look less significant and vindicate the Israeli narrative, they have failed miserably. After making this point, he added that the Israeli authorities were preparing models of what they call the Temple, in order to build it on the ruins of al-Aqsa.
It was noticeable that Abbas could not bring himself to make reference to the Temple as a historical fact, but had to say what they call the Temple, which indicated he was not prepared to say it had ever existed. He also adopted the decades-old lie that Israel had a plan to endanger the al-Aqsa mosque.
Since Arafat first told Clinton that there never was a Temple, there has been a full-scale effort over the last decade, on the part of the Palestinian leadership, to make this idea of Temple denial take root through programs on Palestinian television, articles in the official Palestinian Authority newspapers, and mosque sermons that aim to deny the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem. In 2009, Palestinian religious leaders repeatedly declared that no evidence had been found that could prove a historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem or that the Temple had ever existed.
The great irony of this new Palestinian version of Jerusalems history is that it contradicts the original Islamic tradition. Abu Jafar Muhammad bin Jarir al-Tabari (839-923 CE) was a leading commentator on the Quran and is known as one of Islams greatest historians. In his account of the conquest of Jerusalem by the second caliph, Umar bin al-Khattab, al-Tabari describes him heading toward the area where the Romans buried the Temple [bayt al-maqdis] at the time of the sons of Israel.
What is also striking about the current Palestinian campaign to deny the Jewish connection to Jerusalem is the fact that Umar himself allowed the Jews to return to Jerusalem, after the Romans and Byzantines kept them away for 500 years. As late as 1935, the Supreme Muslim Council in Jerusalem, under the notorious mufti, Hajj Amin al-Husseini, actually published a guidebook that gave the history of the Temple Mount, establishing that its identification with the site of Solomons Temple is beyond dispute.
So what is going on here? This is not just a question of education. If during one of his many trips to Rome, Abbas actually went to the Arch of Titus and viewed the engravings of the looted vessels from the Temple, including the Menorah, being carried in a Roman victory parade, it would not change his mind. Nor would it help if Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan guided Abbas to a museum in Istanbul to see a 2,000-year-old plaque from the Temple Mount warning foreigners not to enter the Temple area (Erdogan may not even be aware of what is in this Turkish museum). Ultimately, this is not a matter of establishing what is historical truth. Instead, the almost obsessive Palestinian preoccupation with denying Israels ties to Jerusalem is actually a new kind of political warfare they have decided to wage.
The Palestinians keenly understand the importance of Jerusalem to Israel perhaps better than some on the Israeli side. They know that, historically, Jerusalem has had an essential role to play in the formation of Israeli identity. In any military struggle, a clear strategic objective is to strike at an adversarys center of gravity, after which its collapse would be almost inevitable. Abbas envoy to Lebanon, Abbas Zaki, said on May 7, 2009, that if Israel were to withdraw from Jerusalem, the Zionist idea would begin to collapse. Thus, the purpose of their present assault on Jerusalems history is to strike at Israels center of gravity and weaken the foundations of the Jewish state.
The Palestinian Authority leaders have observed that most of the assertions they have made about Israel in recent years like comparing it to apartheid South Africa eventually get accepted without question or criticism. They have every reason to hope that the denial of the historical Jewish connection to Jerusalem will gain supporters worldwide.
Israel needs to understand the contours of the new battle that has been imposed on it. It needs to insist that its representatives understand and learn for themselves Israels historical rights. These rights were well known to the generation of Abba Eban and Chaim Herzog, but unfortunately they have been forgotten in the recent past at a time when they have become more relevant for the defense of Israel than ever.
http://jcpa.org/article/abbas-temple-denial/
shira
(30,109 posts)6. Mondoweiss' Annie Robbins denying Temple...
allegedly. theres no proof that was the location of some grand temple. maybe lots of jewish stuff retroactively lands itself right underneath islamic structures. did you ever think of that? jealous much?
anyway, im not questioning whether jews had a special temple, or two or three or four.
but when jon says The existense of the Second Temple on the Temple Mount is not in question. it just makes sense to me that one might call the location of ones temple the temple mount. but why should i have any certainty the mount of a jewish temple was in the location of al aqsa mosque?
but when jon says The existense of the Second Temple on the Temple Mount is not in question. it just makes sense to me that one might call the location of ones temple the temple mount. but why should i have any certainty the mount of a jewish temple was in the location of al aqsa mosque?
im sticking by my earlier statement, theres no proof that was the location of some grand temple. there is no fact a temple was once located on the place we call today the temple mount, and it is not pretty clear.
The existense of the Second Temple on the Temple Mount is not in question.
by you jon, but not by me.
and in case anyone is listening in, i am not saying, nor do i believe there is no evidence of any Jewish presence in the area and every bit of archaeology found there is fake. it just means i dont believe biblical lore.
by you jon, but not by me.
and in case anyone is listening in, i am not saying, nor do i believe there is no evidence of any Jewish presence in the area and every bit of archaeology found there is fake. it just means i dont believe biblical lore.
https://web.archive.org/web/20140723214306/http://mondoweiss.net/2013/07/symbols-occupation-settlers.html
shira
(30,109 posts)7. Benny Morris: Temple Denial
...The tone of this politically-motivated perversion of history was, in a sense, epitomized by Yasser Arafat, the leader of the Palestinian national movement from 1969 until his death in 2004, when, in a conversation with President Bill Clinton during the Camp David summit of July 2000, he said (according to Dennis Ross, Clinton's chief Middle East negotiator), that "Solomon's Temple was not in Jerusalem, but Nablus." (Ross later defined this as "the only new idea" that Arafat had presented at the abortive peace talks.)
Specifically, the idea was to deny Israel any legitimate claim to the Temple Mount. But, by extension, Arafat was implying that, really, the Jews had no historical connection to Jerusalem or even Palestine as a whole. It was all an invented mythology designed to buttress Israel's political claims to legitimacy and territory. Temple Mount denial, in this sense, is of a piece with Holocaust denial which is driven by a desire to demolish what most people in the West regard as one of the moral pillars upon which Zionism's demand and claim for a sovereign territory for the Jewish people is based.
But Arafat's take on history, his lies, in effect, fly in the face of 1,400 years of Muslim tradition and historiography. The Koran itself, albeit somewhat ambiguously, recognizes that God had promised Palestine to the Jews, to which Moses had led them. More explicitly, Yusuf Diya al-Khalidi, a former mayor of Jerusalem and forebear of American-Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi, in 1899 wrote in a letter to the chief rabbi of France, Zadok Kahn: "Who can challenge the rights of the Jews to Palestine? Historically, it is really your country."
Another example is a 1929 guide called A Brief Guide to Haram al-Sharif Jerusalem issued by the Supreme Muslim Council, headed by Muhamad Haj Amin al-Husayni, Arafat's predecessor as the leader of the Palestinian national movement. The guide stated: "Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to the universal belief, on which David built an altar unto the Lord "
And this was the knowledge that Muslim Arab youngsters in Jerusalem grew up with in the mid-20th century. Sari Nusseibeh, the president of Al-Quds University, Jerusalem, recalls in his autobiography, Once Upon a Country, A Palestinian Life (New York, 2007): "Travel books printed in Syria a hundred years ago had no problem calling the Noble Sanctuary the Jewish Temple Mount, just as the Islam that I was raised with left me no doubt that Jesus, the son of Mary, was a prophet of God." But not today.
Now we have Palestinian Temple Mount denial (alongside widespread Muslim Holocaust denial). Of course, a probing archaeological dig in the sacred esplanade might put disputes about what existed there 2,000 and 3,000 years ago to rest. But the keepers of the haram, the Muslim trust or waqf, have staunchly and consistently, for more than a century, resisted all efforts to mount such an exploration. So the lies will continue.
(A good, multi-faceted look at the history of the Temple, Mount, written by Jews, Christians and Muslims, is provided in B.Z. Kedar and Oleg Grabar, eds., Where Heaven and Earth Meet: Jerusalem's Sacred Esplanade)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/24/temple-denial.html
Specifically, the idea was to deny Israel any legitimate claim to the Temple Mount. But, by extension, Arafat was implying that, really, the Jews had no historical connection to Jerusalem or even Palestine as a whole. It was all an invented mythology designed to buttress Israel's political claims to legitimacy and territory. Temple Mount denial, in this sense, is of a piece with Holocaust denial which is driven by a desire to demolish what most people in the West regard as one of the moral pillars upon which Zionism's demand and claim for a sovereign territory for the Jewish people is based.
But Arafat's take on history, his lies, in effect, fly in the face of 1,400 years of Muslim tradition and historiography. The Koran itself, albeit somewhat ambiguously, recognizes that God had promised Palestine to the Jews, to which Moses had led them. More explicitly, Yusuf Diya al-Khalidi, a former mayor of Jerusalem and forebear of American-Palestinian historian Rashid Khalidi, in 1899 wrote in a letter to the chief rabbi of France, Zadok Kahn: "Who can challenge the rights of the Jews to Palestine? Historically, it is really your country."
Another example is a 1929 guide called A Brief Guide to Haram al-Sharif Jerusalem issued by the Supreme Muslim Council, headed by Muhamad Haj Amin al-Husayni, Arafat's predecessor as the leader of the Palestinian national movement. The guide stated: "Its identity with the site of Solomon's Temple is beyond dispute. This, too, is the spot, according to the universal belief, on which David built an altar unto the Lord "
And this was the knowledge that Muslim Arab youngsters in Jerusalem grew up with in the mid-20th century. Sari Nusseibeh, the president of Al-Quds University, Jerusalem, recalls in his autobiography, Once Upon a Country, A Palestinian Life (New York, 2007): "Travel books printed in Syria a hundred years ago had no problem calling the Noble Sanctuary the Jewish Temple Mount, just as the Islam that I was raised with left me no doubt that Jesus, the son of Mary, was a prophet of God." But not today.
Now we have Palestinian Temple Mount denial (alongside widespread Muslim Holocaust denial). Of course, a probing archaeological dig in the sacred esplanade might put disputes about what existed there 2,000 and 3,000 years ago to rest. But the keepers of the haram, the Muslim trust or waqf, have staunchly and consistently, for more than a century, resisted all efforts to mount such an exploration. So the lies will continue.
(A good, multi-faceted look at the history of the Temple, Mount, written by Jews, Christians and Muslims, is provided in B.Z. Kedar and Oleg Grabar, eds., Where Heaven and Earth Meet: Jerusalem's Sacred Esplanade)
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/04/24/temple-denial.html