Creative Speculation
Related: About this forumLOL, YouTube gets it
http://architects-engineers.org/
(Edit, in case you think it's a hoax, here the YouTube link referenced in the page: )
jakeXT
(10,575 posts)William Seger
(11,040 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)All their videos are still there...
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)the A&E website link is this: http://www.ae911truth.org/
the faked one you use to promote BS is not their official site.
edited to ad: and none of their videos are blocked on youtube! no wonder you fall for the official nonsense.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)The site architects-engineers.org is listed under "Project Sites" on the page you linked to.
Here's the whois domain lookup:
Domain ID: D162674697-LROR
Creation Date: 2011-06-30T23:20:34Z
Updated Date: 2014-03-22T17:49:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2016-06-30T23:20:34Z
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, LLC (R91-LROR)
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
WHOIS Server:
Referral URL:
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Registrant ID:CR87162766
Registrant Name:Richard Gage
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Registrant City:Berkeley
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code 4704
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.5102924710
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Admin ID:CR87162768
Admin Name:Richard Gage
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:California
Admin Postal Code 4704
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.5102924710
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Tech ID:CR87162767
Tech Name:Richard Gage
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Tech City:Berkeley
Tech State/Province:California
Tech Postal Code 4704
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.5102924710
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Name Server:NS1.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:NS2.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
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DNSSEC:Unsigned
The link to buy the video goes to http://911expertsspeakout.org which is also on that page and has the same registration info:
Domain ID: D162845160-LROR
Creation Date: 2011-07-22T06:52:12Z
Updated Date: 2014-03-22T17:49:55Z
Registry Expiry Date: 2016-07-22T06:52:12Z
Sponsoring Registrar:GoDaddy.com, LLC (R91-LROR)
Sponsoring Registrar IANA ID: 146
WHOIS Server:
Referral URL:
Domain Status: clientDeleteProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientDeleteProhibited
Domain Status: clientRenewProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientRenewProhibited
Domain Status: clientTransferProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientTransferProhibited
Domain Status: clientUpdateProhibited -- http://www.icann.org/epp#clientUpdateProhibited
Registrant ID:CR88802747
Registrant Name:Richard Gage
Registrant Organization:
Registrant Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Registrant City:Berkeley
Registrant State/Province:California
Registrant Postal Code 4704
Registrant Country:US
Registrant Phone:+1.5102924710
Registrant Phone Ext:
Registrant Fax:
Registrant Fax Ext:
Registrant Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Admin ID:CR88802749
Admin Name:Richard Gage
Admin Organization:
Admin Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Admin City:Berkeley
Admin State/Province:California
Admin Postal Code 4704
Admin Country:US
Admin Phone:+1.5102924710
Admin Phone Ext:
Admin Fax:
Admin Fax Ext:
Admin Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Tech ID:CR88802748
Tech Name:Richard Gage
Tech Organization:
Tech Street: 2342 Shattuck Avenue
Tech City:Berkeley
Tech State/Province:California
Tech Postal Code 4704
Tech Country:US
Tech Phone:+1.5102924710
Tech Phone Ext:
Tech Fax:
Tech Fax Ext:
Tech Email:ae911truthstorehelp@gmail.com
Name Server:NS1.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:NS2.911EXPERTSSPEAKOUT.ORG
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
Name Server:
DNSSEC:Unsigned
Response to William Seger (Reply #4)
wildbilln864 This message was self-deleted by its author.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)Click the link YOU posted, scroll down to the section that lists "Project Sites" and click "architects-engineers.org"
As for the whois, you'll need to type it correctly and leave off the "http://"
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)but I must concede You're correct! Forgot to delete the end slash. Hope you're feeling very wonderful about finally being correct. lol.
nonetheless, all of their other videos are available so what do you think you've proven? This has nothing to do with the science which proves CD.
edit to ad:
It's probably a violation for advertising for donations or some minor err on their part was the reason for removing the one video.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)You're proud of the fact that you don't even read what I post: http://www.democraticunderground.com/11358777#post3
That would make you among the least qualified people on the board to judge whether or not I'm correct.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)get around to reading your boringly long posts eventually and it's just a bunch of sophistry which in no way answers the questions about 911 with any facts! Your opinion as to my qualifications not withstanding.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)I don't post for your benefit.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)How many do you think you've convinced so far BTW?
William Seger
(11,040 posts)Could be a lot of reasons why there's only about three or four "truthers" left around here, and not a one of them can discuss any issue intelligently.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)nonsense propaganda you and the other 911 anti-truthers catapult doesn't mean they're not intelligent. I easily count at least 14 within the firs few threads here. But disparaging anyone who questions the official nonsense seems to be your forte'. You cannot honestly answer the real questions about the molten steel and the free fall acceleration of building 7! All you can do is deny those things happened but they did. As dozens of eyewitnesses and scientists have proven.
Not really hard to say though. I'd say zero for instance.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)I disparage people who prefer willful ignorance.
(Edit, since YOU provide this perfect example)
> You cannot honestly answer the real questions about the molten steel and the free fall acceleration of building 7! All you can do is deny those things happened but they did.
That is a lie. I have said many times that you don't know that the molten metal was molten steel, because the people who reported that couldn't possibly have identified it as such just by looking at it, and that there was almost certainly molten aluminum, which nobody reported. I have also said many times that the 2.25 seconds of freefall, which came after 1.5 seconds of less than freefall (which Gage's "experts" repeatedly ignore or lie about) can easily be explained by the fact that 8 stories of columns were buckled and broken by that point, and I even gave you a diagram to explain it.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)William Seger
(11,040 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)guess Youtube didn't get it after all huh?
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)There are pictures!
you are posting more unsupported speculative sophistry based on nothing other than someone who wasn't there's opinion.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)We have also discussed many times the scientific study -- not my opinion -- which identified that as a eutectic reaction that happened at about 1000oC, which absolutely no real expert believes is thermitic melting.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)these experts say your fulll of it!
site where any "eutectic reaction" ever caused steel to melt and flow under any building happened before 911 in any steel framed hirise resulting in collapse of any kind!
William Seger
(11,040 posts)You posted an image of the piece of steel which was identified as being a eutectic reaction. You post absolutely no evidence that it had anything to do with the collapse, and since it most probably happened in the rubble pile after the collapse, there's no reason to presume that it did. You post nothing to prove that the molten metal that was observed was actually molten steel -- in fact, no real proof that it was molten metal instead of molten glass.
You claimed all I did was "deny" these things, but now all you want to do is tell us how unconvinced you are by the rational explanations, as if someone should be impressed by that.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)The Killer Fires Theory is Pure Fantasy
The simple facts of temperatures:
1535ºC (2795ºF) - melting point of iron
~1510ºC (2750ºF) - melting point of typical structural steel
~825ºC (1517ºF) - maximum temperature of hydrocarbon fires burning in the atmosphere without pressurization or pre-heating (premixed fuel and air - blue flame)
Diffuse flames burn far cooler.
Oxygen-starved diffuse flames are cooler yet.
The fires in the towers were diffuse -- well below 800ºC.
Their dark smoke showed they were oxygen-starved -- particularly in the South Tower.
http://911review.com/articles/jm/mslp_1.htm
William Seger
(11,040 posts)As we've discussed many times, at even 600ºC, structural steel loses half its strength, and even at 300ºC its subject to the elastoplastic creep buckling that real experts have identified as the proximate cause of the tower collapses, not "melted" steel. Only the willfully ignorant could hang around this board since 2005 and not know that.
And still you want to dredge up long-since refuted arguments and repost bullshit videos instead of retracting your claim that "all" I do is "deny" these idiotic arguments. I give supported reasons for rejecting that bullshit and you stick your fingers in your ears.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)and 600 C does not melt steel! nor even Al which is 660! What heated
the steel to over 660 C? Oxygen starved wood fires?
Nope. People burn wood for heat every day. and their steel heaters don't collapse!
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)No way kerosene fires or oxygen starved paper fires reach such temperatures. But even still, the steel was melted.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)... and well below the temperatures produced by thermite, which is the actual point. There is not a shred of evidence of any steel that was melted at that temperature.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)steel was seen in the video I posted glowing bright yellow and orange weeks after the collapses!
William Seger
(11,040 posts)... which not a single real expert finds surprising, and steel "glowing bright yellow and orange" simply confirms that temperature rather than refutes it. Where is the evidence of any temperature anywhere near the temperature of thermite, and where is the rational explanation of how thermite would be found burning "weeks after" or why steel melted by thermite before the collapse would still be "molten" weeks later? The thermite theory isn't just unsupported; it's downright irrational.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Mark Basile explains in the video I posted.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)Iron slag and aluminum oxide residue would be evidence of thermite melting. "Evaporated" steel is evidence of a eutectic corrosion.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)the physicists, chemists and metallurgists all say you're wrong! They examined the evidence. You did not. You believed liars and shills.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)... who have manifestly failed to convince their professional peers that they know what the hell they're talking about. Why do you suppose that is?
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)they're intelligent enough to know they've been lied to and not crooked enough to follow the sheep. They have not lost their jobs so evidently their peers still have faith in their judgements and expertise. As do their employers and clients!
William Seger
(11,040 posts)"Truthers" are allergic to truth, and you keep posting the videos that prove that.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)It means we want the truth of what happened and how and are not convinced. Your opinion of it's meaning is of little importance to us. microscopic even.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)... then accuse anyone who tells it to you of lying and sophistry, often before you even read what they have to say and always before you make the first attempt to understand why they say what they say. If that weren't true, you'd at least know what they say, and here you've given extremely convincing evidence that you don't. The only "truth" you want is what theology calls "revealed truth," which means someone pulled it out of their ass and you accept it on faith.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)have the truth. What I want is an investigation. A public, independent one. Never gonna happen IMO but that's what I want. Until then no bullshit will convince me that those building shouldn't have collapsed the way they did.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)reached 600 C either but you proclaim it happened. Yet deny dozens of witness accounts who were there!
William Seger
(11,040 posts)(B) none is really required, since that temperature would be virtually unavoidable in an ordinary office fire. That's exactly why fireproofing is required.
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)cannot happen unless it was CD. 2330 architects and engineers are more credible than you!
William Seger
(11,040 posts)My knowledge of these subjects comes from actual experts, whose expertise I accept due to the evidence-based and logical reasoning they use to support their opinions and claims, not just their credentials. Which is precisely what's missing from Gage's "experts."
wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)Right phd's and chemists and physicists with decades of experience and training have no credibility because the frauds you believe say otherwise. Fail again! Their not Gage's experts. They speak out because they know their business.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)wildbilln864
(13,382 posts)They haven't spoken up about any political issues of any consequence. They didn't complain when Bush stole the election or when Bush & company lied us into wars either. all that confirms is they're just cowardly or are profiting or not paying attention. Or just don't want to get involved.
William Seger
(11,040 posts)... that can withstand expert scrutiny. If they could, they would have some peer-reviewed papers to support their claims instead of just bullshit YouTube videos.
Response to William Seger (Original post)
wildbilln864 This message was self-deleted by its author.