To be honest I havent seen any of that. What Chappelle did is BS

But it was purely awful and it was heavily triggering to see so many DU members defend transphobic behavior

What that tells me is that there are individuals here at DU who have a transphobia problem, but there are lots of other people who object to it strenuously enough that they are willing to alert on objectionable posts and vote that DU rules have been broken when called to serve on a jury.

It absolutely sucks, imo, that ANYONE at DU is capable of being enough of an asshole to post transphobic garbage here. But it encourages me to see that there are so many people here who are willing to do the necessary work to make sure that kind of trash gets taken out. To me it says that the transphobic assholes are definitely not in the majority at DU.

To vercetti 2021: I don't know what was in those posts, because they were removed before I ever saw the thread, but I can tell from the responses that they must have been pretty horrible. I'm SO sorry they were ever posted here, and even more sorry for the pain they obviously caused you. But I really hope you won't let those assholes ruin DU for you. I wish I could promise you that nothing like this will ever happen here again, but you and I both know I can't. What I can promise is to always be on the lookout for his kind of garbage and alert on it as soon as I see it, every single time.

I also promise to stand with trans folks and others in the LGBTQ community, here at DU and elsewhere, support all of you in any way I can, do my best to educate the hateful and ignorant whenever the need arises.

In closing, I leave you with this: https://www.lovewhatmatters.com/6-positive-affirmations-for-every-trans-gender-non-conforming-individual-lgbtqia-mental-health-self-care-love-kindness-ally/

Even to the point where someone said if we lose in Nov, its gonna be on us. Like scapegoating us once again for losses that are caused due to shitty laws and gerrymandering. But we don't even know whats going to happen. We can slaughter the GOP due to them taking away Roe and thus more laws soon. Including my right to marry.

I'm over it. Myself and another trans member are tired and we never wanted to speak up due to fear of getting banned. But I don't care. I'm done with silence. I can't believe I have to do it here of all places.

1. "We" were always projected to lose in November just because it typically happens to the side that has control over the WH (not that I believe it)

2. Whoever posted that should have been instantly banned from DU

3. Everyone has the right to be what and who they are.

Every transphobic thread I've seen here, I've reported multiple posts that were never removed, but all of my posts calling the transphobia out were. Nothing was done until EarlG was looped in. The worst offenders I remember were tombstoned eventually, at least.

One of those hides was a post from me, speaking out against bigotry being allowed and urging for something to be done.

But that's worse than posting bigotry.

Sadly that sounds like more what I’d expect…

And there's no doubt it was coming from people who love claiming DU is "too sensitive".

Very passive aggressive stuff.

And, they are gleeful about it.

People are so F*ed up. Anything different scares crap out of them and they have to squash it to make sure that they are safe in their bubble.

Hang in my dear. We need you here.

Your voice is so important. I'm sorry you're not being supported. I am an ally. But, I have also gotten things wrong. Sometimes, I don't even know what to say. So, all I can say is I value and support you, vercetti2021.

I have not been following the latest controversy. I've been experiencing so much tragedy in my personal circle that all else has really faded.

However, I do feel the pain in your post and I am sorry.

You deserve to be here, and I think most of us support you and the transgendered community in general.Unfortunately, timing is everything. I read the Chappell thread, but it was early on and no one had said anything transphobic. I’m sorry for your pain.

is that people who follow comedy at DU tend to be committed to the idea that there are few boundaries, if any. They saw/know what happened to Lenny Bruce. It’s like that is their stand more than that they think it’s ok to target trans. Most DUers are NOT comfortable with Chappelle’s tact.

I had a long relationship with one of the most censored humor writers of the last half-century. He would always punch up, though, not down. I think he’d have mixed feelings on Chappelle.

I hope you don’t decide to leave, v, and I am sorry that you’ve been hurt here.

I've only seen snippets of Chappelle a couple of times & found him revolting. Just my opinion.

Who else you gonna eat Oreos with at 3am?

This is sickening that you would even have to feel one tiny bit uncomfortable here. Don't hide, alert. Enough people alerting can change things. Of course you know that. I guess all I wanted to do here is tell you that you are 100% supported by me and everyone I actually ever talk to here and that is a LOT of people.

Please do not leave!

And I have no idea about Dave Chappelles humor.

I will try to be more diligent and call out those when I see it.

my cup of tea.

If you need to take a break, do so but don't leave us for good - you have friends and allies here that support and value you.

Last edited Mon May 23, 2022, 09:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Dave Chappelle is a homophobic and trans bigot - not much you can change about him. I'm sorry if people do not get just how bad he is and how much hurt he causes. He is today's Milton Berle - google him if you want. Both share being extremely homophobic and blatantly obvious in their insecurities. He's just someone I do not care to give much notice and attention - hoping he finally tells just that one joke that goes to far and people just move on.

:hugs:

I got your back.

We all have a lot to learn. I should say I do, and DU should be a place where we can do that - confront our own biases.

Thanks for posting; keep teaching us. And I mean that sincerely.

They are non-binary, and have taught me a lot about how to be compassionate and how to be an ally. We need people like you and like my kid. Please stay. And ALWAYS call us out when we do stupid shit.

I call it out. I get heavily jumped or hid. I can't imagine how a child must feel getting jumped. I'm 31 years old and it destroys me. Normally it wouldn't. But this is suppose to be a safe place. And I feel like it isn't anymore.

I didn’t see as many people defending him so much as I saw people defending his right to say what he wants. And people can respond by criticizing him and or ignoring him.

"But he can say whatever he wants, people are free to ignore him or speak out against him in return.

More free speech is the answer."

That isn't defending trans rights nor calling out folks defending Chapelle. You are part of this.

Please don't leave. We need your voice. BTW, I am a cis straight woman and like *most* of us here, this issue is close to my heart.

DU should be better. I hope after a little time we can be better.

I made a post five years ago about not using "gay" as an insult (lots of those Putin kissing Trump memes going around), and I put up a post asking people to please not do that.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/10029010750

Someone put up a whole separate thread defending the practice because "use whatever works" as though slinging homophobic slurs against people we don't like was going to direct policy in a way we want. It was disappointing. Saw lots of slurs get thrown around by supposed allies.

It was like every "friend" I had in high school with an arm around my shoulder saying, "Hey, I don't mean to insult YOU or anything, but THAT GUY'S A F***OT!"

I stand in solidarity with my trans friends. We must end the hurtful transphobia that somehow runs unchecked through left and progressive spaces if we're ever going to do something about the wicked and damaging anti-trans policy and legislation that is literally killing people.

I'm tired of it. Everyday is a day where I think. Is today the day someone kills me? I hate it but its reality. Coming here is my escape from it. But when it exists here? That's what cuts deeper

Stay and know many support you. More and more everyday.

The so called humor by these so called comedians is hurtful to me and my child. But please don't leave here, from my experience most here are supportive. Hugs to you 💙

I cant imagine how it is for a trans child right now. They don't understand why they are marginalized and hated for them being them. Hell I'm 31 and I fully don't understand why

Please don’t leave, we need your voice here!

I hadn't read it, but we need to know when things happen like that. And clearly a portion of us need to be educated and become sensitive to what hurts any one of us.

Do alert on posts like that. It helps educate the poster.

Plus I'm one of many who I think are very willing to serve on a jury to keep this place the kind of place where we all feel safe.

I can't listen to Chappelle because so much of what he says is offensive to me.

I don't know how to stop the racism and hate.
I know this we all need to mind our own business.

Even DU needs a good scolding every once in a while! Or even better a slap across the head!

I’m very sorry you feel you haven’t been respected here, but we all need to know it when we do it! We need you here. Please don’t leave!

I hate how Trump and others are mainstreaming bigotry and hate. You are a better person than those ignorant fools who try to tear you down.

Please don't leave. Any group like this will be proud to have you. I know I am. You have a good brain. Those are always needed.

feel free to send me a pm on threads like that. i'll be there.

up to the jury system to deal with individual bigoted posts.

Vercetti, you can see here how numerous your allies are , and we are just a representative sample, you can be sure… so I’d say bookmark this thread for any future occurrences, and message any of us to alert if your alert fails a jury. With this many of us stepping up to stand by you, we’ll likely eventually get a jury seated that will remove the post.

Peace and strength, friend.

As a cisgendered male, I'll never be able to understand what it's like to be transgender. As a bisexual, I absolutely understand what it's like to be discriminated against based on identity. And, I know that it is especially painful when that discrimination comes from individuals you think would understand.

I think one of the definitions of a liberal is understanding that someone can feel differently than you, and, though you may not be able to comprehend it, you can appreciate them for who they are, and want them to feel comfortable. The best way for me to understand is visibility, which means interacting with individuals like yourself. I've worked alongside trans and non-binary individuals, and I like to think that the experience helped me expand my worldview. I'll admit to some discomfort, especially at the start, but this discomfort was all my fault, not theirs. Over time, it became no big deal. In the future, I'm sure I'll encounter other trans people, and I like to think it will be easier each time.

Not everything about being trans is readily apparent to me. But, with contributions like yours, I'm willing to listen and trust you when you say you've been hurt. I'd certainly rather hear from you over Dave Chappelle, Ricky Gervais, or JK Rowling. Sorry about the crap you've had to deal with. There are assholes everywhere, but hopefully there's enough of us out there who will stand with you and defend you from the assholes. All of us have a whole lot to lose if we don't.

This is going to be a lengthy post, apologies in advance. I'm going to try to keep it as thoughtful and neutral and calm as possible, but... I will open this by saying I am very upset, very hurt, and very scared over what I've seen (casually, along with posted directly at me) over the months...

The trans community here has seen more than its share of cruelty in recent months. Fittingly, it started off in the first place with Chappelle last fall, and has now gone full-circle by going back to Chappelle this week. Maybe it's all coincidence, maybe it's not. But here we are, months later, and nothing much seems to have changed... All the while, over 300 bills have been introduced by the QOP, targeting the LGBTQ community - especially the T's.... And we're not even half-way through 2022.

We have been beaten over the head by Chappelle... Because, apparently, it's easier to speak up for a rich, famous comedian with a loud microphone - even when he uses that microphone to speak hate - than it is to speak up for a vulnerable minority that's very much in the crosshairs. All the while, we're told we need thicker skin and need to take a joke. A joke. Speaking about people in a way that laughs at their very existence, and dehumanizes them, is not humor. I know how to make a joke. Hell, I DJ online, and I've made enough jokes at my own expense - some funny, some bordering on self-loathing. I know what a joke is. "Beyond pussy" and "beet juice" and his ranting and raving aren't jokes. We're not laughing because what he says hurts deeply, during a very bad time...

Never once have I seen anyone in any of the Chappelle threads ask us how we feel or what we think. We've been told what to think and feel. Maybe people would learn something if they took the time to ask us "Why aren't you laughing?" Because there is a fine line between finding something funny (stereotypes about makeup or wigs or insanely high heels?) and talking about someone like they're a subhuman freak.

Chappelle didn't just cross that line... He left it light years in his rearview mirror. And, let's not forget... "I'm Team TERF!" Is that any different than if I were to say "I'm Team MAGA!" or "I'm Team Q!"? No. It's not.

I have, over the months, been talked down to when I've tried to speak up, like I have no right to speak on an issue that not only deeply affects me personally, but a matter that President Biden speaks up about and fights for. This isn't compromising with DADT... This is a President - the leader of our party - making it very clear that trans rights are human rights, and anti-trans discrimination is dehumanizing.

Yet, for a long time now, we've been told that we "lose elections" because of LGBTQ issues. We've been told we can't risk fighting for this, because "we're such a small group." This is a core Democratic issue. This is the right thing to do. These are human rights. Our very President stands for them. The QOP are the ones who've done all the attacking... And yet, some won't speak up or fight for that... But they'll fight us.

I have had people reply directly to me and tell me to my face that "I speak from privilege." I am a Match Game fan. I can fill in the blank. The blank is between "from" and "privilege". That word is "male". Because I wasn't born female, I am a male in their eyes, and therefore I'm pulling male privilege... even though I have not identified as male in over 30 years. I'm sorry, but such statements are one step away from blatantly misgendering me, using a slur, or even calling me an "it".

I have been lectured about chromosomes, and told "You respect the science on vaccines, but you can't respect the science on gender?" The kind of stuff I would expect to hear from the fang-dripping mouth of MTG... Again, discrimination and bigotry. An absolutely cruel, insensitive, dehumanizing statement... Not made toward the transgender community in general, but aimed specifically and personally at one trans person.

This is supposed to be a safe space. We should not be expected to debate our lives, or our existence. We should not be expected to beg for our rights, or even whether we can live. This, going on during a time when the QOP has made us the Ultimate Enemy. This, during a time when people like us an our allies are being labeled as "Groomers". I sit in fear, wondering when the shooting starts. Because as we've seen, it often starts with talk, then turns into them shooting "the others".

I'm going to toss out a few examples... The kind of stuff we have had to face. The kind of stuff that wouldn't fly here, while we're expected to "educate" and "grow a thick skin".

How much hot water would someone get into if they barged into the threads about the Roe leak with "Quit being so sensitive!" or "We can't get caught up in this kind of culture war stuff. This is why we lose elections!"? How many seconds would it take that person to go from "Active" to "Posting Privileges Revoked"?

How well would it go over defending a comedian who makes rape jokes? Hell, how well would it go over to be a fierce advocate for Johnny Depp, or tell upset women to "grow a thicker skin!" because they want to enjoy 21 Jump Street or Edward Scissorhands or whatever?

Back when I actually conversed with Republiqans, I had a few try to dismiss "Grab her by the pussy!" as a joke or "locker room talk". Guess what? It was neither. We all know that. But somehow Chappelle's stuff is a joke?

We're supposed to engage in debate over our rights and our lives? Think it'd be cool if we had a debate over Buffalo, or even say what someone said in the comments on Kotaku (you know, that allegedly liberal site owned by famous herb Jim Spanfeller), where they tried to blame the shooting on rap music? Someone playing that card would be called out for racism and quickly.

Yet we've taken abuse. We've had bigotry thrown in our faces. Bigotry that juries have excused, while speaking up and pushing back and calling it out gets hides. I'm sorry, but I'm not sure the jury system is equipped to handle bigotry, particularly when it's veiled or comes in the form of micro-aggressions. Many here have not walked a mile in our stiletto heels (see, there's your joke). They don't know what we face. They don't know what it's like. They don't know the subtle and not-so-subtle ways we've been told for many years "You're fake" and "Genetics" and "We don't care about you." And fighting back against bigotry... That's a core value of the modern-day Democratic party. It's what we do. It shouldn't get us punished.

We are human beings. We deserve human rights. We are part of the Democratic base and have been for a long time. We have a president who now fights for us, during a time where we are very much targeted and at risk... And yet, some of us feel unsafe here. Unwelcome here.

Our lives aren't easy. They're scary at times. We have our own private hell to live through. We have our own shit we have to deal with that doesn't involve DU, or even the internet. We have our own scars. We should feel safe here. Yet we don't...

Why? What did we ever do to anyone? How much do we take? When does it stop?

I'm beyond tired. Tired of it all. Tired of the last half-century. Tired of the last 14 years especially. I'm hurt and I'm scared and I'm angry and so much anymore, I just want to be with my partner again.

You hit it all on the head.

Thank you for speaking up as well

As that thread yesterday showed. Which shows how messed up this place is, my friend.

GREAT post. Here for you.

For being here and for your kind words on my post.

As far as Depp? I get it. I loved - past-tense - him too. I thought he was a cool guy and a great actor. Sure, probably drank too much and dabbled in drugs too much. But he seemed to be a reasonable guy...

Until we heard the truth about his marriage. I've lost all respect for him, and his scorched Earth, "don't fuck with me!" lawsuit has caused my respect for him to go into the negatives.

I've seen the pro-Depp crowd here, and it's another thing that can only make me shake my head. Everyone loves screaming "WON'T SOMEONE THINK OF THE WOMEN!?" when the subjects of trans athletes or restrooms come up... Then when they have a chance to stand with a woman who truly is a victim (Amber Heard), they stand with Johnny Depp.

I digress a bit, but.. Part of the above does fit. Because once again, when the stakes really matter, a lot of people here would rather stand with an abusive man than an abused woman. All the while turning Lia Thomas into the devil for just trying to be herself...

But my old friend Yardie persuaded me to stay.

The amount of TERFS who are allowed to post here is disturbing. Our posts calling them out get hidden, we get 24-hour alerting bans, they do not get hidden or if so, not banned. It's all well and good EarlG AGAIN said something, but it needs to have teeth. Folks need to get banned, and fuck this "censorship" thing: none of this should be allowed her. I am waiting for the OP lauding Rocky Gervais' newest transphobic Netflix special.

on edit: this trans hate also extends to LGBT and women in general. It's sick what has been allowed here with this.

Lot of people talking me out of leaving but I'm still considering it. I'm not giving comedians a pass for being assholes and not funny. Being funny is one thing. Being an old fart complaining about social issues is not.

I've gone through 30 years of fucking hell since coming out. Friends abandoning me. Family disowning me. Two who tried "conversion therapy" via attempted murder. One with a knife, the other with a baseball bat. A so-called "good friend" who used his fists to "beat the homo out of me." The last relative I have is my dad, and considering how he wanted to "he" and "Bruce" Caitlyn Jenner just last month... What the hell happens when I say "Hey, Dad? I started HRT?" Yeah. There goes the last of my family.

I've been told how ugly I am. How I'm an abomination. How I'm going to hell. I've had the cops in my face because "Someone called us and said you're preying on children," when I've never done a thing to a child. "Groomers"? For some of us, this is nothing new.. We've gotten the "groomer" shit for decades.

I've had Chappelle's "comedy" thrown in my face, right outside my front door.

I come here and get told how fighting for my human rights isn't worth it. How the real victim is Chappelle (and now that fucker Gervais), because "censorship". I get confronted and discriminated against. I get told to respect the science, and think it's okay to debate my life and my thoughts and my feelings and my rights.

I've been tired and hurt and heartbroken for a long time. I come here thinking this is a safe space because the Democratic party and Joe Biden support trans rights and trans health care... And instead I hear about genetics and get told to "grow a thicker skin."

I want people to see how much this has all hurt, and how much damage this has caused.

How much? I'm a few days away from my birthday. Why would I even want to see it? The only thing I want is to see my partner again...

liver cancer took her in 2008.

The 6 previous years of my life when I felt truly validated.
I wish more people understood what horrid experiences LGBTQ experience: doubly stupid when it's based on some twist of Xtianity.
Strange twist of fate has brought up old PTSD nightmares for me all over again. Dulled a bit since extensive therapy but haven't had a good night's rest in weeks. Weird part is it was an odd visit to a doctor's office brought the memories of a rape situation in my pre teen years, where I was also physically hurt.
In both situations it was numerous witnesses. I was treated as "property", in the former, just that "faggot" who didn't deserve to live: that was reinforced by a local Baptist preacher and several of the adult coaches and teaching staff at that idiotic redneck "school".
Family didn't help, Dad eventually attempted to murder me. I can't help but wonder if even one individual involved in that constant extreme isolation and bashing, no exceptions, no one to protect me, ever realized how idiotically cruel they'd been. In the light of the Trumpism Era, I doubt it. I'll never know. Far too much danger in discovery. I think lately some are discovering how volatile RW bigotry can be.
But there's quite often I get frustrated by the lack of support in some "safe" spaces for us, like here.
Trans or Homo phobia "light" is still unforguvably ignorant.

I'm not sure I've felt validated since 2008 myself.. At least didn't feel empty inside. My heart goes out to you for the loss of your partner

PTSD is so unpredictable like that. Sometimes it gets triggered at the oddest times... or the smallest things. I'm hoping that in the last couple days that the nightmares have dulled a bit and you've been able to sleep a bit better. I'm also glad the therapy helped at least some. Good - or even decent - therapy can be so hard to find. I've struggled to find it for years myself.

The experiences you've had, I've had, so many have had, often lead me to wonder if we really have an "education" system in this country. It feels more like having a social conditioning system where they decide early on who's accepted... and who's not. For those of us who aren't accepted, it's a living nightmare. For far too many of us, we leave "school" with more PTSD and scars than we do education.

Family also far too often does not help, or makes it worse. I think that's another thing so many don't see - here or anywhere... What our families do to us. I wish I could say "No way, I can't believe it" over your father... But I can. That's the saddest thing. I can. Families are supposed to be there for us and protect us, not harm us. But far too many families do hurt their own, and that seems to be far more frequent with the LGBTQ community.

Like you, I think the era of Trumpism has opened some eyes. Even then, not enough. I don't think people see how bad it was prior to 2016, or fully get how bad it is in 2022. I don't think they see how badly the LGBTQ community is targeted by RW extremism (300+ bills so far in 2022 alone.) I know there is a lot of fear and anger over Roe - rightfully so. I know there is a lot of fear and anger over Buffalo - rightfully so. But I think some don't get what a relentless onslaught 2022 has been for us, and how it takes its toll. When we come here and it doesn't feel so safe (such as over Maher or Chappelle, or the fits over Lia Thomas), I don't think people get the impact it has. It doesn't even have to be anything as blatant as "two genders" or "respect the science". Things as "small" as arguing or debating about us like we're not even here hurts and makes us feel unsafe.

I myself has a significant PTSD attack on my birthday of all days, just a few days ago. Why? Was it hitting another birthday while hating my body? Probably. I imagine the recent three-headed monster of Maher, Chappelle and Gervais factored in it as well. The shooting in Texas did as well. And the 300+ bigoted bills in 2022 obviously played a part... So on what should be a happy day, I have a PTSD episode. I've spent the last few days trying to reconstruct the whole thing, including what happened during it. I was actually working that evening, and I've been trying to check and be sure it happened after I got off the air, not during. Fortunately, it sounds like it wasn't while on the air... But I imagine there's a few hours of my life that are gone to a blackout of an episode.

Like you, so much of the trauma that has led to PTSD was caused by what should've been two "safe spaces" - school and family. Even though I wasn't out while in school, even though my family loves to talk of sticking together... They didn't help, they hurt. Decades later, the scars are still there, I'm a walking ball of neurosis on a good day, and on the wrong day... Boom. PTSD episode.

I wish people would understand this is far more common than they think. Some just hide it better... I get that a lot of people are hurting and scared and angry right now, and the last thing I want to do is play the "Oppression Olympics" with any other group under attack. I just want them to see we're people too, and we're hurting too.

We should all be safe - here, and everywhere. I'm losing hope when it comes to everywhere... I just hope we can start by making here safe.

One of the threads about the Ohio pedo pervert genital inspection bill has inspired the usual "trans athletes have unfair advantages" and "shouldn't be allowed".

It never fails, does it? Instead of calling out the QOP, it's us getting called out.

I wonder if any of the "SAVE OUR SPROTS!" crowd here would still think there's an unfair advantage if they knew what 3 1/2 weeks of Spironolactone - and so far only Spironolactone - was doing to my physical strength. I've already had a few moments of struggling to pick up or moving things that weren't an issue in the past.

Not that I'm complaining, mind you. I knew it would come from treatment and HRT. I'm just tired of the myth that female trans athletes are all built like Barry Bonds (circa 2002) and see this as the "cruise control" to winning.

We now have people pushing right-wing talking points on the matter, saying we call the QOP "bigots at our own peril" on the matter.

Go on, people. Keep claiming you're trying to be "fair" or "protect women's sports". Some of you have made it absolutely clear you fully stand with the QOP on trans issues.

and it still does.

It's not gonna stop ever. I addressed it and yet nothing is done.