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no_hypocrisy

(49,142 posts)
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:04 PM Sep 30

I knew a "Trad Wife".

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:43 PM - Edit history (1)

She was my law client, and this was about 15 years ago.

She was married (obviously) and had five children in quick succession, ages 3 to 9, three girls and two boys.

Child Protection removed her children and put them in foster care. And the agency was desperately trying to terminate parental rights in order to allow adoption by the foster family.

My job was to get the kids back. As if that were the easiest part.

I discovered that she was a victim of domestic violence, and her husband controlled her physically, mentally, psychologically, and emotionally. And Child Protection first ignored that fact and denied her services for assistance. Later CP used the DV as justification to terminate her rights because she let it happen.

Her husband was a throwback Catholic, meaning Scalia and Opus Dei would be too liberal for him. He kept my client confined to the home they were renting. She and the kids only left when they had to see a doctor. He refused to let them to school, even parochial school. He was the head of the house in every way. And she gladly went along with him with no complaints.

And there's more. Not only did the husband keep my client pregnant and lactating for a decade, but he also forced himself on her sexually, including anal sex (which is used by some men for the illusion of total submission). And he hit her.

The reason they came within the radar of Child Protection was one night he strangled her. She called the police, and they arrested him. And he convinced her to drop the charges. And then he convinced her to leave the state when the investigation of the kids and the family commenced. Child Protection caught up with them and arrested him until he told them where he hid the kids.

So, I was delivered a client who was near catatonic. She could barely talk to me and to the therapist. I knew we couldn't move forward without deprogramming her. We moved her to her mother's home in another state. When she and her husband went to court, it wasn't together. I kept them separated, even preventing him from following her to the restrooms.

We had a DV hearing, and she didn't want to go to testify because she was afraid of him. We coached her enough to be in the same room with him.

I became a social worker as well as legal counsel. I got her one of the best therapists on domestic violence. My client was receptive. She filed for divorce. She got a vocational certification. She did everything the caseworker for Child Protection demanded.

And the Court returned her kids. And she and the kids have nothing to do with him since that time.

BTW, my client "won" partially because all representation was free/pro bono and I was "between jobs" at the time and could afford to dedicate all the time needed.


49 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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I knew a "Trad Wife". (Original Post) no_hypocrisy Sep 30 OP
Awesome job. Eko Sep 30 #1
Thank you for the help you gave that family biophile Sep 30 #2
Heroic work Dear_Prudence Sep 30 #3
The husband tried his tricks to manipulate me. no_hypocrisy Sep 30 #5
You're awesome. 50 Shades Of Blue Sep 30 #4
Thank you for a job well done. brer cat Sep 30 #6
You had a very good outcome. Fortunately the Court and the Resources were available to support BOTH the woman AND hlthe2b Sep 30 #7
It was a war on several fronts: no_hypocrisy Sep 30 #9
no_hipocrisy indeed. Job well done Clouds Passing Sep 30 #8
This is the kind of domestic shit JD Vance wants Blue Owl Sep 30 #10
Whew, what a cliffhanger! ShazzieB Sep 30 #11
I caught two big dogs that were escaping to the beach from their home and the dog sitter last week mahina Sep 30 #12
Great story, and I love the happy ending FakeNoose Sep 30 #13
Score one for the Good Guys! NewLarry Sep 30 #14
Thank you is not enough, AllyCat Sep 30 #15
YOU! GAJMac Sep 30 #16
Those guys are all dimpled grins and charm galore Warpy Sep 30 #17
Good job! Wish there were more dedicated folks out there like you relayerbob Sep 30 #18
You're a hero 🥇 live love laugh Sep 30 #19
... Faux pas Sep 30 #20
One of the worst moments: no_hypocrisy Oct 1 #21
Eww... Roxi Oct 1 #23
Thank you. Sadly it's a story for these times. Thank you again and again and again. n/t. NNadir Oct 1 #22
I don't see her as a "trad wife," she was a terrorized victim MorbidButterflyTat Oct 1 #24
Good point. Not clear how much she wanted the "Trad wife" life or if it was forced upon her (putting aside the physical LymphocyteLover Oct 1 #30
So much to unpack here. But, first, thank you for helping a battered woman. Not all attorney's would have... Joinfortmill Oct 1 #25
I do have to wonder how many of the awful men like in this story were also raised in a similar household? LymphocyteLover Oct 1 #31
A wonderful and hopeful thing you did! people Oct 1 #26
You are a really good person. Thank you for making my day. OLDMDDEM Oct 1 #27
Bravo - job well done! So happy this lady got her children back. n/t iluvtennis Oct 1 #28
OH MY GOD! What a story. These far-right Christians are the worst. Thank you for helping her. LymphocyteLover Oct 1 #29
Thank you for being so compassionate and so caring kimbutgar Oct 1 #32
Thank you Wild blueberry Oct 1 #33
How horrible... and you know how many are out there unable to get help :( FirstLight Oct 1 #34
Need more like you. LiberalFighter Oct 1 #35
Thank you KT2000 Oct 1 #36
My third thought (after unbelievable sorrow for her)..was a certain someone else WE know. chouchou Oct 1 #37
You are a hero! geardaddy Oct 1 #38
Wow... you dun good. NT Happy Hoosier Oct 1 #39
Thank you so much for what you did to help her! You went above and beyond. HeartsCanHope Oct 1 #40
bless you cab67 Oct 1 #41
Great effort on your part and appreciate the "case study." I still don't know what TRAD is? though. So out of touch.... Evolve Dammit Oct 1 #42
What is a Trad Wife no_hypocrisy Oct 1 #46
Well done! Aristus Oct 1 #43
You may not want to admit it, but YOU ARE A HERO! Fla Dem Oct 1 #44
Thanks. I get updates from my client and her mother. no_hypocrisy Oct 1 #45
OMG, what a wonderful continuing story. Fla Dem Oct 1 #47
You did the right thing shenmue Nov 6 #48
I was holding my breath Sparkly Nov 7 #49

Dear_Prudence

(838 posts)
3. Heroic work
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:22 PM
Sep 30

You gave the women and also her 5 little children a chance. Must have been a challenging time foe you also.

no_hypocrisy

(49,142 posts)
5. The husband tried his tricks to manipulate me.
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:26 PM
Sep 30

When I pushed back (hard), he called me a Bitch. I still wear it like a medal.

hlthe2b

(106,693 posts)
7. You had a very good outcome. Fortunately the Court and the Resources were available to support BOTH the woman AND
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:35 PM
Sep 30

the kids. You made sure that happened and I am very happy to hear this.

In some locales, the courts are not so enlightened, and/or there are simply only enough resources for the kids to be placed in a safe environment and not to support both WITH their similarly victimized mother. My former SO provided legal services in several of those circumstances and was all too often thwarted in what he was trying to do. I was horrified hearing about it, but these are the realities around the country. Even in blue states. I understand children coming first at all costs, but to ignore the primary victim--the mother--and thus the needs of the kids to be raised by their mother because they lack resources or staff to supervise the situation is one of the biggest failings of our society. I have to say that (at least in my area) ALL involved would agree but when violence is part of the equation and the kids are at lethal risk, well, sadly your outcome is not always achieved.

no_hypocrisy

(49,142 posts)
9. It was a war on several fronts:
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:42 PM
Sep 30

1. Child Protection
2. The husband
3. The foster parents
4. The kids (because the foster parents were rich and they preferred their lifestyle)
5. My client who was shell-shocked and brainwashed
6. The first judge admitted that he saw the issue as 50/50 and decided to "rule on the side of caution".

Blue Owl

(54,893 posts)
10. This is the kind of domestic shit JD Vance wants
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:52 PM
Sep 30

He and Dump must be kept out of the White House at all costs

ShazzieB

(18,910 posts)
11. Whew, what a cliffhanger!
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:53 PM
Sep 30

I was on the edge of my seat waiting to find out how this was going to turn out.

Kudos, you did good!

mahina

(19,017 posts)
12. I caught two big dogs that were escaping to the beach from their home and the dog sitter last week
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 07:55 PM
Sep 30

I did a good thing. I feel pretty good about it. I think that might be the best thing I’ve done in several years maybe longer. I mean, I do a lot. I try to help, but you never know if it’s really going to make it difference or ease suffering, any of it.

What you did on the other hand makes you a real live angel in on Earth in my eyes, and I’m very sure you’re going to heaven if there is one

GAJMac

(232 posts)
16. YOU!
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 09:01 PM
Sep 30

You are the type of lawyer for whom this world cries out. I salute you and, though not a lawyer, I hope that I may service those in need as well as you have.

Warpy

(113,131 posts)
17. Those guys are all dimpled grins and charm galore
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 09:16 PM
Sep 30

until the ring goes on. I know women who got sucked in. A few got out. Most didn't. They all make my heart ache.

I've lived a long enough life to know the only thing any of those men ever learns when a beaten wife breaks free is "get a younger one the next time."

relayerbob

(7,068 posts)
18. Good job! Wish there were more dedicated folks out there like you
Mon Sep 30, 2024, 09:18 PM
Sep 30

and with resources to help these poor people

no_hypocrisy

(49,142 posts)
21. One of the worst moments:
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 05:15 AM
Oct 1

Husband responding to my client's distress that they in fact were about to lose their children in court:

"It's all right. We'll make other children."

Roxi

(2,160 posts)
23. Eww...
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 09:01 AM
Oct 1

I don’t understand how anyone can view their children as replaceable. That’s sickening.

That guy deserves a lifetime in prison. AND castration.

Thank you for saving the woman and her children.

MorbidButterflyTat

(2,633 posts)
24. I don't see her as a "trad wife," she was a terrorized victim
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 09:38 AM
Oct 1

I guess I don't get it. Her husband trapped her and their children in the house, battered and raped her, and was so traumatized by his abuse and control she couldn't be in the courtroom with him at the same time he was there, but she "...gladly went along with him with no complaints."

I'm glad she was able to escape her abuser.

Did he go to jail for his crimes against her?

LymphocyteLover

(6,959 posts)
30. Good point. Not clear how much she wanted the "Trad wife" life or if it was forced upon her (putting aside the physical
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 10:36 AM
Oct 1

abuse)

Joinfortmill

(16,604 posts)
25. So much to unpack here. But, first, thank you for helping a battered woman. Not all attorney's would have...
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 10:15 AM
Oct 1

This post has struck a long buried nerve in me. In the 50's, 60's and even the 70's until the women's movement took hold, almost every wife was a 'Trad' wife. And many women have stories: Stories about husbands beating them, raping them, taking control of their money, keeping them from working outside the home or educating themselves, monitoring their 'free' time. Some just came home and smacked their wives around because they had a bad day at work. Essentially many trad wives were prisoners, not just of their husbands but of society as a whole.

And, parents, siblings, and friends stayed out of it. As for lawyers, I have my own story about one of them, too. You see, the prevailing attitude was if your husband was mistreating you, it must be your fault. You, the beaten down, the overworked, the slapped around must be doing something to deserve this, Or worse, they blamed you because you had the bad judgement to marry the bum in the first place. Until the women's movement, there was very little support for women in these situations. Society SHAMED you for being beaten, controlled, stalked, and often raped, which was the husband's right, by the way.

All that changed for me when I read Simone de Beauvoir's book, Second Sex. I recommend everyone read it, but especially women. It will clear the cobwebs from your psyche and give you a very different view of yourself.

One final word, there are many, many fine men out there. I raised one myself. I thank God for them. To women I say, be very discerning in your choices and listen to that little voice that keeps telling you, something is 'off' here. Peace.

LymphocyteLover

(6,959 posts)
31. I do have to wonder how many of the awful men like in this story were also raised in a similar household?
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 10:37 AM
Oct 1

kimbutgar

(23,568 posts)
32. Thank you for being so compassionate and so caring
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 10:52 AM
Oct 1

You are a saint !

I was married briefly to a guy who had those attributes and luckily got out of that marriage without having children with him. After I remarried my current husband of 35 years the ex was remarrying and he sent me annulment papers because I took birth control while we were married ( every time I talked to my Mother she reminded me to stay on birth control pills) I took those annulment papers and threw them in the garbage. I saw a picture of him and his wife on Facebook. He didn’t age well !

FirstLight

(14,300 posts)
34. How horrible... and you know how many are out there unable to get help :(
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 11:14 AM
Oct 1

I was an abused wife and mine kept me barefoot & pregnant through two babies... I ran when they were 22 and 9 months old. My ex was already groomng the 2 year old for sexual abuse. I found my computer filled with kiddie porn and since it was CA it was only a misdemeanor!

I hope that part of the new Kamala Administration will have more access and assistance for those in need...

LiberalFighter

(53,508 posts)
35. Need more like you.
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 12:05 PM
Oct 1

Too many in a domestic violence relationship that should not be.

More better stories for women in those situations.

chouchou

(1,398 posts)
37. My third thought (after unbelievable sorrow for her)..was a certain someone else WE know.
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 12:57 PM
Oct 1

He enters the reality of people..destroys their life..make them miserable and then blames everyone else....

HeartsCanHope

(754 posts)
40. Thank you so much for what you did to help her! You went above and beyond.
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 03:00 PM
Oct 1

I knew a few women who went through the hell you described. Some had help from other family members, and others had to go it alone. Thank goodness all the women I knew made it out alive. So many women don't. No woman should go through that, ever! Thank you for sharing her story. Thank you again for all you did for your client and her family.

Evolve Dammit

(19,023 posts)
42. Great effort on your part and appreciate the "case study." I still don't know what TRAD is? though. So out of touch....
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 04:50 PM
Oct 1

Aristus

(68,583 posts)
43. Well done!
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 05:56 PM
Oct 1

I don't have the words. But you did a monumental thing in helping a fellow human being escape from a human monster.

Fla Dem

(25,850 posts)
44. You may not want to admit it, but YOU ARE A HERO!
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 07:01 PM
Oct 1

Against all odds you saved that woman and reunited her with her children. There is a special place in heaven for people like you.

I don't know if you could, but I hope you had a chance to follow her and her children's lives after they were reunited.

You are a hero to me.

no_hypocrisy

(49,142 posts)
45. Thanks. I get updates from my client and her mother.
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 07:10 PM
Oct 1

She's a single mother. Three of the five children went to college, one with a scholarship.

She returned to court to get child support and her ex-husband has no legal rights to the children, obviously no visitation rights.

Ex-husband re-married and his new wife found out what a jerk he was and divorced him as well.

Fla Dem

(25,850 posts)
47. OMG, what a wonderful continuing story.
Tue Oct 1, 2024, 07:15 PM
Oct 1

3 out of her 5 children went to college. I hope good fortune continues for the family.

Sparkly

(24,352 posts)
49. I was holding my breath
Thu Nov 7, 2024, 09:51 PM
Nov 7

until I got to the end of this!!! Whew...

Thank you for the work you did, and for sharing this heart-wrenching tale.

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