Feminists
Related: About this forumRight. I'm back.
Someone reminded me that I posted this last year. And how much I agreed with it. So yeah, I'm over being so badly triggered over the weekend.
Those of you who suggested a break were exactly right. I haven't experienced anything like that on DU and it rattled me. I won't be so shaken next time (I hope).
So this is what convinced me that I shouldn't give up on DU. This is a long article, but it's very very very much worth reading.
All of it.
Is It Cold in Here?
By Jennifer Ouellette | July 20, 2011 | 106
(snip)
With all the other trouble in the world, why should we care about this? Its because those climate issues chase many women out of the hard sciences and indeed, out of any male-dominated community. In March, the University of Wisconsin, Milwaukee, conducted an NSF-funded study on the retention (or lack thereof) of women in engineering. Nearly half of the women surveyed who left engineering said they did so because of negative working conditions, lack of advancement or low salary, and one in three left because they did not like the workplace climate, their boss or the culture. Only one in four left to spend more time with family the usual excuse that gets trotted out when folks try to explain away the low numbers of women in such fields.
(snip)
It pretty much mirrored every Internet comment thread (follow that link for a terrific comic by Gabby Schulz) that ensues whenever a woman, however diplomatically, dares to raise the issue of sexist behavior, with one crucial difference: Watson was being attacked by members of her own community, who prided themselves on their rationality and critical thinking in short, by the very people who should have had her back.
Here is the message being sent to the women skeptics and atheists say they want to join their ranks: If an atheist/skeptic man behaves boorishly toward you, or refuses to respect your boundaries, whether social or sexual, and you have the gall to state firmly that this is not okay, you will be publicly pilloried, ridiculed for being hysterical, called a man-hating feminazi (or worse), and have your concerns belittled and dismissed.
(snip... and here is the part that's relevant to my wanting to stop participating in discussions here)
(1) Ladies: even though you might not feel 100% welcome, grit your teeth and show up anyway, because there is power in numbers. Studies have shown that these chilling effects start to dissipate as communities approach 50/50 gender ratios. I showed up anyway, and Im glad I did, because I could see firsthand how much has changed since I last attended TAM. TAM9 had markedly more women in the audience (around 40%), and half the speakers were women. I was the only woman speaker at TAM7 two years ago. That is tremendous progress in a very short time, and the willingness of Watson and her fellow skepchicks to show up, speak out, and endure the inevitable slings and arrows cast their way played a key role in making it happen.
...
Please read the whole thing. Please.
Bookmarked to read the whole piece when I can devote time to it. I certainly was glad I took your advice on "Miss Representation".
Please don't leave. Please.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)So glad you enjoyed Miss Representation. It's like a breath of fresh air, isn't it? To see women taking up this fight again is just outstanding.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)it's really good stuff... so much more than what I shared in the excerpt.
DonCoquixote
(13,710 posts)Was the last paragraph in the article just chance, or was it something that also helped you?
(1) Ladies: even though you might not feel 100% welcome, grit your teeth and show up anyway, because there is power in numbers.
I am a male, and still say Amen to that.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Thanks.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Extra bonus thanks because it involves the JREF, and has this hilariously apt cartoon in it
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)Don't miss the linked comic that shows how every discussion about sexism goes on the internet, ever. It's even better.
arcane1
(38,613 posts)Gregorian
(23,867 posts)I just finished watching a lecture series by Dr. Walter Lewin from MIT. He's an older man who obviously holds women in very high esteem. It's so sad to think that he may be a rare specie among the technical people out there. It was wonderful hearing how he gave great credit to his grandmother for her novel approaches to the things she did in her daily life.
I worked for a Russian engineer one time. I'll always remember how he collaborated with his mother to help design a method for processing poultry.
I'm sick of the weak minded, lazy attitude that so many men seem to carry around.
I yearn for a world where the participation from all is the norm. I just listened to a show on women in rock and roll. They're still intimidated. I don't remember who it was, but these two women were collaborating to create an environment where women in rock and roll could support each other and grow.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Things are better now, but as with all the groups mentioned in the piece linked in the OP, still very much male-dominated.
LiberalLoner
(10,104 posts)I don't click on the rape or sexual abuse threads very often because I have had instances of getting really upset and horrified here on DU. One reply sticks out in particular...it was about fathers sexually abusing daughters...guy said he had a dog who regularly "raped" his own underage doggy daughter, and what was wrong with that, seeing as it was only natural? And what's natural for other animals, is surely natural for mankind....
That one sticks out in my mind, but there have been other somewhat less odious remarks.
Anyway, glad you are here. Yeah, we need to keep fighting.
seabeyond
(110,159 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)I hope that ****** was banned.
And thanks.
LiberalLoner
(10,104 posts)was left there. It's still there in the archives, I'm sure it's easy to find.
I took a break for awhile after that.
iverglas
(38,549 posts)I wonder when (2), (3) and (4) can be expected?
(3) Foster top-down change. Leadership, especially male leadership, needs to set the tone for what is and is not acceptable in a community. The 2007 APS report quotes Virginia Techs Patricia Hyer on this: The voices of male heads can carry great weight in moving forward an institutional change agenda, especially if they use their access to institutional leaders and personal prestige to make the case for gender equity.
(4) Foster bottom-up change. Men at the grassroots level need to reinforce the leadership position and make it clear to their peers that such behavior is unacceptable. As former APS president Judy Franz said in the 2007 APS report, If you make all your women feel more valued by your speech and actions and if you publicly chastise those that make demeaning or snide comments, you will find the rewards are great.
Haven't seen much evidence of any of them at old DU.
(Yes, there is some (4). Very little, although what there is, is sincere and dedicated and appreciated.)
So the onus is still on the women who give a damn, then?
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Still early days in the effort to defeat the patriarchy I'm afraid.
It seems that there are so many brands and flavors of different offshoots and sects of feminism, and many have focused on this or that particular area of concern -- not that that means that any area is being dimissed -- but apparently the idea of fighting the very deep-rooted and ancient idea of women as 'other' was pushed to the side.
It's to the point now that people don't even recognize what the patriarchy even *is*, dispute that it even *exists*, despite this being Sociology 101 kinda stuff (as opposed to 'women's studies' as so many like to attempt to belittle it as).
ForeverLiberal
(7 posts)Sometimes I hate revealing that I'm a girl on the internet -- here come the sex/rape jokes, the 'get back in the kitchen', the general talking down to, the whatever else. And yes, the attacking -- like my opinions don't matter because I have a vagina.
But I will never let that affect me because, as it said, "There is power in numbers" and I won't let them win.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)in their forays onto the internet. Hopefully a parent will warn them of the situation so that they don't go in completely unaware and get blindsided by the ugliness.
Violet_Crumble
(36,142 posts)I had a bit of trouble getting past the mention of Tripod (love them!), but the article was well worth reading. Yr right. There's power in numbers, and I'm glad yr back, even though having breaks from DU at times is something that's a good idea, imo, having done it myself...
Back to Tripod. Here's a welcome back present. It's a very very early clip of them doing a piss-take of Oasis in a contest they entered on a show here. Enjoy...
redqueen
(115,164 posts)And thanks for the video too.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)Would please explain how you mean that?
Thanks.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)redqueen
(115,164 posts)If you have something to say, please just say it.
BlueIris
(29,135 posts)I'm afraid my own feelings about leaving remain the same: my enthusiasm declines with every passing day. Can't see it coming back. So I'm having trouble understanding your perspective.
redqueen
(115,164 posts)Thanks for explaining. I got an e-dressing down for calling it quits is what happened. I participate in other feminist spaces and when I shared my experience with someone I trust, and related that people had said they needed my voice and that it made me feel guilty for leaving, I was not-so-gently reminded of a time last year when I was pushing others to resist giving up. So basically I was guilted into it, I suppose. I don't mind though, it was good to be reminded why I had my old sig for so long.
laconicsax
(14,860 posts)Great article.
It really is. She did a brilliant job of describing how deeply entrenched this stuff is in our culture and in our minds, how it affects all our behaviors and preconceptions.
Scout
(8,625 posts)Tumbulu
(6,445 posts)in ag it has been the same way.
Thanks for the article.