Someone you don't know can be anything. Actually, someone you do know can be anything too (rapist, killer, etc.).

If I see you walking up to me at a dark street corner, I don't know if you are going to say hi or bash me over the head with a baseball bat. It's pretty much common sense.

I always laugh when I see men whining about this... I don't know what to call it... but it's whined about a lot.

The whining is puzzling at best. Outrageously entitled at worst.

Never.

for daring to say that men shouldn't proposition women they don't know while alone in elevators at 4 am. I'd never seen such uproar, and it made it clear to me (once again) how deeply misogynistic society still is.

and would not need it explained to me.

white people, dont take a black perspective. men dont take womens perspective

i say perspective, but i also mean history/condition/socio-economic status/right etc

it all boils down to power, those who have it and those who don't

its why straight feminists are not the same as lgbt feminists. its why i dont often feel welcome in this forum, because most of your perspectives are shaped by heterosexuality and mine is not.

and i dont think it hurts to listen so people can understand better, even if they may not ultimately agree with you.

i learned years ago, that from an hetero's perspective, i did not see all angles of the civil marriages/marriage differences. i opened mouth to express with all good intent and support of the gay community and they let me know where my thinking was wrong. since, i listen. i dont feel the need to express my opinion, i have more the desire to hear what is being said. ask questions. and learn.

understanding. or growth.

that there will always be a divide that we can never hope to merge with,

i havent found that in most any aspect in life when both people are open to listening.

you see this in every other problem when there is a power difference. i am sure there could be understanding, however i see that as unlikely.

and shutting the door. if you shut the door, without even trying, then how can you say that? is it possible that what you say will not be received from another? sure.

but, you haven't given any examples in the different posts letting us know that you are not comfortable here. i, personally, would love to hear your opinion on a number of issues and have an actual discussion. your age, your experience and the education you are receiving are all wonderful source of info. that doesn't mean people will not disagree with you on issues. but, it doesn't mean you are not heard and you are not respected.

and why i personally dont trust the majority. as you and others have said earlier, trust is earned. i am saying its not just earned vis-a-vis men and women, its earned in other regards as well.

if you felt there was any of that in the womans forum, allowing the rest of us the opportunity to support you.

with women trusting men, we are discussing a physical threat to us. that is something specific and a real concern.

when discussing a minority group trusting others, we are talking an understanding, acceptance, willingness to listen and learn.

i dont know where on this forum, in all the time you have been here, you feel we cannot be trusted.

"trust is earned"

people also have to be allowed the opportunity to earn that trust.

straight feminists very rarely use an lgbt perspective in their analysis of issues. the trust is not physical, but that i do not trust straight feminists to necessarily take up my issues or try to see why i see something differently from them.

i no longer wish to continue this conversation because it seems like you are demanding my understanding/tolerance or whatever, and i dont think these things can be demanded.

on edit: also, please understand that the threat you face for rape, i do too and the additional threat of being gay bashed.

and i would never be quiet with gay bashing, though, i do understand that is something you face that i do not. and i have yet to see it in womens forum.

I think lately it's been carried too far and become an unhealthy level of fear. Caution and awareness of your surroundings are good, but if a woman has reached the point where she suspects everyone, all the time, it's gone from healthy caution to unhealthy paranoia, and I feel like paranoia is being pushed a lot more since the Watson story.

I remember growing up in the 70's, when "Stranger Danger!" was the New Big Thing. We were all carefully schooled by our parents to fear The Stranger who would Pull Us Into His Car, Take Us Away and do Bad Things. It's been debunked recently as not only unhelpful but harmful, since the majority of "danger" comes from people close to the child, and in teaching them never to talk to strangers (i.e. almost anyone) they cut the child off from potential sources of help. That's what this feels like to me- Stranger Danger redux. The greatest rape threat comes from people a woman knows and who has already earned her trust, yet we're once again being taught to fear the stranger on the street to the point of avoiding all contact. This doesn't seem healthy to me.

YMMV

I know many women who, when the RW issue exploded, thought it was absolute nonsense that she'd be afraid of the guy. Then there are those who, like me, have had bad experiences, and probably those experiences had colored their perceptions of possible danger.

I was just talking to seabeyond on another thread about being approached by strange men in cars while just walking down the street as an underaged girl. Those experiences scared me, so did the date rapes. So did being followed home as a young girl by a couple of men. It doesn't make me afraid of every man, but it would make me very cautious about how to reject an offer from a strange man in an elevator. Yes indeed. I would be very worried about the repercussions, and would probably only refuse the offer after I was stepping off the elevator.

I just have trouble seeing it as a healthy reaction. Placed in an elevator with an aggressively horny jerk who was annoying me, I'd probably just tell him to fuck off and let the dice roll from there- come to think of it, I have done this in similar situations. Getting raped didn't make me afraid, but it did make me aggressive when pressed.

i dont know if it is getting older (more secure in self) or rape, but ya... lol. getting aggressive seems to work for me. sometimes i will ask self if that is the best approach, but i really dont have a lot fo thinking time before it is there and out... so, meh. i hear ya.

aggressive works, meek, I have found, does not. I don't usually stop to think about it either; it's automatic reaction now.

I'll usually ask them to go away politely first. Depends on the situation.

we are meek, unsure, shy, .... whatever.

that is the predator going after the prey and why many men (except the totally inept) dont go after women. once a woman hits about 24, the whole world changes. or begins to, anyway.