I understand the sentiment of the black woman quoted . . . However - (I'm a child of a black/white marriage with a touch of native) identify as black.


I think there is a LOT MORE than a John Lennon quote antagonizing black American women. In general, with good reason, and I don't believe the majority caucasian feminist movement in America should be burdened by it.

I'm far more disturbed by Hollywood reducing us to sluts, 'sapphires', tragic mulattos, and jovial yet efficient maids - than I am a Lennon quote or the feminist movement. Make sense?

and like you, I don't get all caught up in words. Someone could call me the n or b word all day long and I'd just hold up a mirror so they could see themselves.

I think there are a lot more important things to worry about however, it's offensive to many Black sisters so I'm willing to sacrifice the quote.

I can also follow their reasoning and understand where they're coming from.

My bottom line is that even if I don't agree, if they say it's painful and it's an example of the White privilege that keeps Black Feminists from uniting with White Feminists, shouldn't we take heed?

I know Black Feminists are already working on the things in your last sentence but it's a hard, long battle that we could win faster if we start acting like Feminists who fight to right the plight of all women, regardless of color.

I was listening to Sunera Thobani this morning. She makes me want to go back to school and sign up for her classes!

However I do disagree with this statement:

I guess I know too many white feminists that will stand up and 'cheer' for a win at the Academy for 'The Help'. Do I dismiss them for that? Nope. Not at all. The book and movie spoke to them in some way. And the author and producers should be proud of themselves for such a win. And if the black actresses win for playing a stereotype - kudos to them. I hope it translates to them becoming millionaires many times over.

But I don't know if I'm willing to march at the back of the line. Just Monday - there was yet another blogster/article out on the internets pondering "Why Aren't Black Women Married?" There is no feminist reason for it - it was the continued slavery of black men for 100 years after the end of the Civil War, that in the 'Welfare Queen Era' lead to absurdly high incarceration rates, and a half-assed attempt to educated black children in America.

Am I willing to continue to push for and blatantly fight for Fair Pay? You betcha - because I believe that is the single most pressing issue for women in America. But black and latina women still make even less on the dollar than their white female counterparts.

With so much pain, poverty, hunger in America - at this time - in this space and place - I need to focus on American women. That is my first priority. Our main issue here IS a 'First World Issue' - but the time is now to address us. If we have a Democratic WH, Senate, House in January 2013 I believe we are going to see massive infrastructure renewal. That means jobs for everyone. But I want to make sure the women doing those jobs get paid their value!

but very fitting.

I didn't know this until last night but there's economic theft taking place right there.

There are layers and layers here. But it was just another Black woman that got ripped off and the Mississippi Courts let the exploitation stand. Sometimes what we're cheering is horrible underneath but we have no idea because of the way our society's constructed. Still the victims know the truth, and the pain.

I agree with you about fair pay but as a non-White, when I see my darker sisters exploited and hurt, for the comfort of Western women, I can't let it go or elevate it above their pain.

I won't knock people who do and admit I'm missing a tribal gene from years of living all over the world but I just can't elevate the needs of Western women, or American women, over the needs of our victims.

I can't stop thinking how different things would be if we had bonded with our sisters in Iraq and Afghanistan against the patriarchy's colonialism.

I don't see why we can't focus on both, on equal footing? If we were joined at an international level of sisterhood and were hitting them from all over, wouldn't we be further along? And wouldn't it make it easier for our sisters who say we don't care enough about issues important to them to see that we do and ally with us?

These are tormented questions. I don't mean to point fingers or attack anyone, much less you, and it doesn't help to know that some other words I casually typed about racism in the Feminist movement caused a righteous woman pain recently.

Please accept my apologies in advance if anything I said here was insensitive or accusatory. These are just my thoughts and I think a lot faster than I can type so sometimes it comes out all wrong.

I'm glad we're all in this together and having different priorities isn't a bad thing unless we work against each other's goals like sometimes happens.

I have a thick skin . . . I guess because I had parents heavily involved in local politics growing up - I truly believe all politics are local.


Now - some of it isn't patriarchy per se - Iran and Afghanistan I look at as War Profiteers making a buck off the deaths of innocent people. Not just there - but innocent American soldiers who died over some huge whoppers being told - to benefit whatever Eric Prince's outfit is being called these days and Darth Cheney.


But I could say this - why do we ignore women being raped to death in Darfur? Even Dummya called it a genocide . . . I have thoughts/opinions on that - but I've had to step away from my Genocide activism because I've learned that I'm just handful of people globally who cares. We couldn't stop it - so I give up.

But - I can fight Chris Christie with everything I've got. Because he lives just a few miles up the road where I'm sitting at this very minute.

I guess I'm saying that unless the Feminist movement in America acknowledges that:
1. Jan Brewer - Governor of AZ - HATES brown people. Not just Latinos/Latinas/Hispanics but allllllllllllll brown people. What ELSE am I to believe based upon her poor behavior? Really piss poor behavior.
2. It's okay to say that THAT woman is too wet to step on and too low to kick. Her gender aside - she's one of the bad guys. Her record proves it.
3. When she got up in President Obama's grill - she wasn't threatened. 35 years ago she would have been deliberately and maliciously trying to get an innocent man lynched. And her behavior was to show all the big smart white men that she could get away with it because she's a 'girl'.


Okay - three things - but those are three things to think about.

America in general is in the toilet. Our problems are huge. I can chip away at these five and get them corrected - or I can wax poetic about 3000 injustices against women around the world.


Focus on what can be done - just like we do at work. We have our to do list - some items are long pole items . . . some are quickies/hot potatoes. To me, equal pay legislation for women in America is something we can get done.

Rallying for equal pay for women in Southern Sudan, Lithuania, China, Brazil, etc. etc. - will keep us running on the hamster wheel for a long long time.

For me, theory and philosophy only excites me so much.

Now this? This excites me: http://www.nwlc.org/our-issues/employment/equal-pay It fires me up! GAME BACK ON!

We can get this done. We can do this. We can get a win. It will impact every single woman in America.

We get that done - I can start thinking about the 'Grand Things' - but right now - I need something real that can be held in the hands.


And I was aware of The Help thing. But thank you for putting those details out there! It needs to be said, over, and over, and over again.

Stockett did not 'solve the issue of racism' in America in her little book there . . .

Check it out: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1254111

Was required reading in my High School. It was a bit of Chinese history in a story form. The mother refered to her girl children as slaves. Little slaves because they would be married off to the husband's family to be bossed around by her morher-in-law.

I think that the comparison is still somewhat valid, given the way Santorum views us.

Seem like I also remember an alliance between women and the black community when we went out to earn our voting rights.

Last edited Thu Feb 23, 2012, 02:58 AM - Edit history (1)

Looks like it's time for an adult reread of that book.

From what I recall, that alliance wasn't very strong because many White women didn't want the Black Suffragette's to even march in the parades.

Even in the 1960s and 70s, many Black Feminists felt racially discriminated against in the Feminist Movement, so they went off and formed the National Black Feminist Organization (http://www.blackpast.org/?q=aah/national-black-feminist-organization-1973-1976 & http://www.mit.edu/~thistle/v9/9.01/6blackf.html)

I don't know how soon the alliance will come back because Black Feminism believes that "sexism, class oppression, and racism are inextricably bound together". Until mainstream Feminism starts thinking that way, what alliance?

The mainstream Feminist movement, imo, doesn't give enough thought to race and class oppression to find much common ground right now. I think all that is changing but there's not enough talk about class yet. Or colonialism.

Just seeing Santorum's name is enough to give me nightmares. Thanks sis.

~~~~~

Edit. I changed "were racially discriminated against" to "felt racially discriminated against" so it doesn't look like I'm accusing anyone. That wasn't my intention and it wasn't my intention to cause anyone pain. Thank you to the sister who pointed this out to me.

The dispute between Wells and Willard in England intensified the mean campaign against Wells in the American Press. The New York Times ran an article insisting that Black men were prone to rape, and that Wells was a "slanderous and nasty minded mulatress" who was looking for more "income" than "outcome." These vitriolic attacks in the American press swayed many Britons to Wells' cause. "It is idle for men to say that the conditions which Miss Wells describes do not exist," a British editor wrote. "Whites of America may not think so; British Christianity does and all the scurrility of the American press won't alter the facts

But in order to get White Southern Women into the mix - Wells was asked to march at the back of the parade. Literally and figuratively.

I would add that in addition to racial slurs, poor women get the shittier end of an already shitty stick. 'Cause, you know, only poor women are "sluts" and only well-to-do women are "virtuous".