and my first reaction is to say no it isn't but in my heart, I believe it is with structural racism inserted in the most insidious way. This is why I like the Third Wave so much, because they're asking hard questions and trying to deal with the answers.

What do you think after listening to this? This woman always give me so much to think about.

for posting this.

I think I have found another place (the Feminist Group) to visit on this site, and another poster that I will seek out!

Though I suspect that I will not be posting to the thread, other than to ask questions; as I am a firm believer that as a male, even an interested male supporter of women's equality, my job is to LISTEN, and ACCEPT what is said in the forum as the truth of your experience. And then it is my job, as an interested male supporter of women's equality, to take what I have heard and communicate, as best I can, your truth to other males.

but from my understanding, and experience, everyone is welcome here regardless of gender.

I understand why you said that but if we in turn, turn around and tell men to shut up and look pretty, how far have we really come? Other than separatists, 2nd wave feminists have always welcomed the support of men and have worked with men, as did 1st wave feminists, including the suffragettes. There's no question about the 3rd wave.

I hope you participate. We don't bite, I promise.

By the way, the respect is mutual. I've enjoyed your posts in GD, they really stood out.

I appreciate the invitation; but will spare the forum members from having to tell me to STFU.

I have found that, even the well-meaning, committed, dominant group member more often than not brings with them a "Super-Save-A-{insert group} ... I know what's best for you" attitude to their activism.

I will not be that guy!

I, once, after suffering months of a particularly arrogant (white), and wealthy, "civil rights warrior" (his self-descriptor), telling me that his experiences with racism were as, if not more, valid than my experiences with racism.

I was ultimately expelled from the Civil Rights organization that he was involved with (read: funded) because I told him, that while I appreciated his support, in terms of the racial civil rights battle, he could be a "Warrior"; but not the Chief ... he could be a foot soldier, a sargeant, or even a Lt.; but he could not be the General ... he could be the chief strategist; but never the Visionary, because at the end of the day, his understanding of racism and its effects are, at best, anecdotal.

and will look forward to your contributions all the more fellow foot soldier.

I assume from your postings and your user name that you are black. In society at large, I, as a white woman, have more power than you do. Yes, this is the feminist forum and it's preferable to keep the postings about Feminism and the discussion of what can be done to further that cause.

But I think we can learn from others who have gone before us (such as African Americans) to try to work together so that everyone is equal.

The whole point is for women and men to try to work together as a team to figure out all of our problems. Feminism addresses female problems more because we have more of an unequal footing. Trying to become equals does not mean shutting men up and pushing them away. It's to look for solutions to every day problems that women and sometimes men, face.

That is exactly how I feel.

of these terms, but I do see them at work a lot. There's almost a hierarchy of oppression in the power structure of the US. (white men have more privilege than white women, white women have more privilege than black men, black men more than black women, etc). When we fight for the end to only one form of oppression IN MY OPINION - we join in the oppression of others. If I only care about the suffering of women but ignore the greater barriers to equality for a black woman... I am, in effect, participating in the subjugation of the black woman.

I'm sure that was kind of weirdly worded, but I'm quite tired today.

I may quote you one day "If I only care about the suffering of women but ignore the greater barriers to equality for a black woman... I am, in effect, participating in the subjugation of the black woman."

I tried to touch on that the other day when I went on a rant in Meta. I admit I was angry, even more so because I live somewhere where the women don't have much privilege and it infuriates me to come to DU and see how so much energy is sucked into rigid, shallow and intolerant drama.

THANK YOU!! (and Gormy Cuss) for the education

I guess I'm a Third Wave Feminist.

I really appreciated your other posts in the H&M threads, too. And, that bell hooks book is great.

I've fallen in intellectual love with several posters in Meta this week and your appreciation is flattering.

Did you read this gem by Obamanaut? I just saw it and it left me speechless.

It's funny that you mention falling "in intellectual love" with several posters this week, because you, lilypaddle, and many others made such an impression on me in H&M that I feel more comfortable de-lurking.

The wheels of justice grind in a mysterious way.

I made some real friendships there this week.

Jump in, dive in my friend! I'm glad you delurked

I wish it were more thought out but it's the carbon copy of a Meta post so I wasn't structuring anything.

I'm off to crosspost it in the AA forum now.

And Whisp, thanks for hanging in there all these months and being such a solid ally of truth.

I love you sister.