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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Wed May 30, 2012, 08:34 PM May 2012

Radfem Sheila Jeffreys, transphobe, barred from speaking at the RadFem 2012 venue!

(Some background here)



Sheila Jeffreys, RadFem2012 and the imaginary trans conspiracy
May 29, 2012

...

Kickass feminist and activist, the thoroughly inspirational Roz Kaveney recently wrote a takedown of this particular branch of radical feminism, rightly likening it to a cult (although arguably there are also fascistic overtones to the radfem party line on this issue). If you haven’t read it yet, please do. It’s utterly brilliant.

Sheila Jeffreys has responded to Roz’s excellent piece with an argument with so many holes it would be better suited to function as a colander. Again, this piece is worth reading, though for the exact opposite reasons to the one above. Jeffreys’s entire argument hinges upon the idea that it is only trans people who could possibly ever object to this particular murky brand of transphobia.

This is, of course, patently untrue. I’ve written myself that transphobia has no place in feminism, and I’m hardly the only one. One does not have to be trans to care about the rights of trans people. One simply has to be free from bigotry.

Jeffreys claims persecution from the trans community in the form of utter horrors such as glitter bombing and captioned photographs. Perhaps the most stark example of the hideous persecution faced by poor Jeffreys and her transphobic ilk is that Jeffreys claims the RadFem2012 conference venue to have banned her from speaking, citing evidence of her hate speech that she believes to be entirely reasonable. Throughout, notably, Jeffreys can only blame a shadowy cabal of trans people: the idea that cis allies may have in any way been involved simply fails to occur to her.

...

http://stavvers.wordpress.com/2012/05/29/sheila-jeffreys-radfem2012-and-the-imaginary-trans-conspiracy/


The above article merits reading in its entirety.



Here's the opening of her ridiculous complaint in the Guardian:

Criticism of the practice of transgenderism is being censored as a result of a campaign of vilification by transgender activists of anyone who does not accept the new orthodoxy on this issue. A recent Comment is free piece by the transgender activist Roz Kaveney, headlined "Radical feminists are acting like a cult", criticises a forthcoming radical feminist conference, at which I was to be a speaker, on the grounds that I and "my supporters" may be guilty of "hate speech" for our political criticism of this practice.

Though Kaveney's comments about me are comparatively mild in tone, the campaign by transgender activists in general is anything but. This particular campaign persuaded Conway Hall, the conference venue, to ban me from speaking on the grounds that I "foster hatred" and "actively discriminate". On being asked to account for this, Conway Hall appeared to compare me to "David Irving the holocaust denier". The proffered evidence consists of quotes from me arguing that transgender surgery should be considered a human rights violation – hardly evidence of hate speech.

...

What is clear is that transgender activists do not want any criticism of the practice to be made. They do not just target me, but the few other feminists who have ever been critical. Germaine Greer was glitterbombed, a practice that can be seen as assault and can endanger eyesight,

...

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2012/may/29/transgenderism-hate-speech?fb=optOut


"hardly evidence of hate speech"? Really Sheila?
24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Radfem Sheila Jeffreys, transphobe, barred from speaking at the RadFem 2012 venue! (Original Post) Catherina May 2012 OP
She sounds like any right-winger who says that Starry Messenger May 2012 #1
How is stuff like this not hate speech? Catherina May 2012 #4
Reminds me of the way stormfront folks talk about African Americans, Jews and LGBT. stevenleser Jun 2012 #13
After all the hateful comments and blogs I read from the RadFem defenders Catherina Jun 2012 #14
JFC that's evil obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #23
Good. Thanks for posting! yardwork May 2012 #2
Thanks for reading. And caring Catherina May 2012 #3
So she's too radfem for RadFems? Gormy Cuss May 2012 #5
RadFem still wants her Catherina May 2012 #6
Oops, thanks for the correction. Gormy Cuss May 2012 #8
I don't think you're missing anything Catherina May 2012 #9
Political lesbians? Oh my. I remember the first time I heard that from a rad feminist. Gormy Cuss May 2012 #10
You're so welcome but look at this, which is such a welcome difference Catherina May 2012 #11
No I hadn't heard of her. Gormy Cuss May 2012 #12
Good on you for devaluing lesbianism. He loved Big Brother Jun 2012 #17
I would say that saying all women should be lesbians as a feminist cause... Neoma Jun 2012 #18
Good for you for bursting in to try to devalue a sister who has our respect n/t Catherina Jun 2012 #19
How is a straight woman a lesbian? Gormy Cuss Jun 2012 #20
"Radfem political lesbians:" Starry Messenger Jun 2012 #21
Thanks, He loved Big Brother Vanje Jun 2012 #22
Don't even get me started obamanut2012 Jun 2012 #24
This have something to do with Lysistrata? Neoma Jun 2012 #15
Good one. It's Lysistrata imposing celibacy on all women Catherina Jun 2012 #16
Responses to RadFem2012 show our queer, feminist communities are standing strong against transphobia Catherina May 2012 #7

Starry Messenger

(32,375 posts)
1. She sounds like any right-winger who says that
Thu May 31, 2012, 12:44 AM
May 2012

human rights are up for debate. What the hell is the "practice of transgenderism"? Children know at an early early age what gender they feel they are...this sounds like the old "lifestyle" debate for gays and lesbians, like it is some kind of sexual tourism.

From the bigot:



Psychiatrists and sexologists who are critical of the practice are targeted too. Transgender activism was successful in gaining the cancellation of a London conference entitled Transgender: Time for Change, organised by the Royal College of Psychiatrists' lesbian and gay special interest group for May 2011. When, in 2003, US sexologist Michael Bailey published a book, The Man Who Would Be Queen, which argued that transgenderism was a practice based on sexual fetishism, he became subject to a campaign of vilification, which included placing photographs of his children on a website with insulting captions. The effect is to scare off any researchers from touching the topic.



I've never been so angry at anyone's disingenuous words. Michael Bailey's book is listed on the Southern Poverty Law Center as hate speech. Michael Bailey was uncovered as a commentator on VDARE's commentary site the Human Biodiversity Institute.

This is the same VDARE that is connected to Charles Murray's The Bell Curve. John Derbyshire, who was just fired from ultra-conservative National Review for actually being too racist for their readership over Trayvon Martin's murder is also listed there.

Take a long walk off a short pier Sheila. Walk until your hat floats. Yeah, a lot of us are foursquare against Nazi science. You have been swimming in racist eugenicist waters. Stay there and leave the rest of us.

Hot mess angry.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
4. How is stuff like this not hate speech?
Thu May 31, 2012, 02:18 PM
May 2012

After you tipped me off last week, I started paying more attention to their hate on the internet.

How thefuck isn't this hate speech? This is from someone who bills herself as an expert on lesbian affairs and disabled to boot.

Warning. Vanje, Yardwork, other sensitive beautiful friends, don't read this.


I knew those fuckers were disgusting, but really, they’re worse than I thought in how they don’t even pretend to care about females. To blame us for them being killed by other men? Their arrogance and oppressiveness is amazing. It is funny though that they are so used to Feminists immediately bowing before them that they don’t know how to deal with that we don’t care what happens to them. They expect we’ll be shocked to see statistics about them being killed, and don’t realize, some of us wish they would ALL be dead.

http://wewillnot.wordpress.com/2010/11/30/wtf-is-with-the-intersex-comments/#comment-1020


I'm still reeling from that, and other comments from the RadFem community. These Janice Raymond followers seem seriously disturbed

That same one, RadFem extraordinaire, hasn't changed her tune a single bit

DEFINING LESBIANS OUT OF EXISTENCE: “TRANSWOMEN” ARE MERELY CASTRATED MEN

Rewind the clock back a few decades and remember how society treated Lesbians, how it said homosexuality was a mental disorder, how paranoid it was and THIS IS HOW YOU REPAY ALL THE ACTIVISM THAT GAVE YOU RIGHTS? By oppressing the next set of very real, current victims? I bleed for the pain they put people like Chaz Bono through. What haters.

I'm shocked. I never saw such hate from any of the Feminist or LGBT groups I've mixed with over decades. Who are these people who openly talk about political alliances with fundamentalists to take care of this *problem*?

I'm stopping now because if I type anything else, I'll be too angry to restrain myself.
 

stevenleser

(32,886 posts)
13. Reminds me of the way stormfront folks talk about African Americans, Jews and LGBT.
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 12:04 AM
Jun 2012

Seriously. Its completely on par with them.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
14. After all the hateful comments and blogs I read from the RadFem defenders
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 01:29 AM
Jun 2012

you'll get no disagreement from me. Unfortunately for them, this is making huge waves and activists are closing ranks against them. If they think all these mean words against their transphobia are *hurtful* now, wait until they see what history is going to say about them.

obamanut2012

(27,883 posts)
23. JFC that's evil
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 10:54 PM
Jun 2012

I mean that. Evil.

This is something like Stormfront would say, this the hate that caused Brandon Teena to be raped and murdered (although FTM).

I don't get how you can hate someone who is just wanting to sync their bodies and public identity with their gender identity. I just don't.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
6. RadFem still wants her
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:06 PM
May 2012

I agree with you. There's nothing radical or feminist about this kind of bigots.


The venue blocked her. I don't know what RadFem 2012 is going to do, move their conference so they can still have their guest or go ahead there without her. They still have her up on their website http://www.radfem2012.com/speakers.html

The venue is still getting hammered. Both these tweets are from yesterday. The last one sounds as if the whole event may get booted out of Conway Hall.

conwayhall ‏@conwayhall
@AmberHolywood @terristange @LeeLysandra more info about our position on #RadFem & SJ coming soon, thanks for your patience.
Expand
Reply Retweet Favorite

conwayhall ‏@conwayhall
@TheRealSGM @FeministatSea More info on #RadFem soon. Suffice to say any bookings cancelled at our request are fully refunded. Thanks.
Reply Retweet Favorite
http://twitter.com/conwayhall/status/207779580931616769


I've been really shocked at some of the things I've read about RadFem, and MichFest, this weekend. Julie Bindel is being her normal, hateful, transphobic self over this, throwing as much gasoline as she can to fan the bigotry.

I'm not impressed with one of the other speakers, Gail Dines either.

Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2007 14:42:16 -0500
From: Gail Dines <gdines AT WHEELOCK.EDU>
Subject: Re: Texts on Radical feminism
Radically Speaking is a great collection and students do well with the
articles. I also suggest anything by Sheila Jeffreys as she applies radical
feminism to a wide range of topics. Her new book on beauty is excellent. And of
course, Andrea Dworkin's books formed the back--bone of radical feminism today.

Gail

Gail Dines
Professor of Sociology and Women's Studies
Chair of American Studies
Wheelock College

http://userpages.umbc.edu/~korenman/wmst/radicalfem.html

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
8. Oops, thanks for the correction.
Thu May 31, 2012, 07:46 PM
May 2012

What's sad is that based on the titles I'd love to read Jeffreys' books on other topics but knowing of her transphobia makes me quick to dismiss her on other subjects.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
9. I don't think you're missing anything
Thu May 31, 2012, 09:44 PM
May 2012

Not only does the transphobia discredit her because of the angle she's coming from, but her logic on other things is faulty. She also plays very loose with facts and omits, flat out dismisses, anything that contradicts her assertions.

Everything in her books is always frozen in time, without a thought for the larger picture, as if things happened in a rigid, static, sterile vacuum with no deviation from what she set out to *prove* in the first place.


That's all you missed dear Gormy. I want all the time I was forced to spend on Sheila Jeffreys' works back.

You can't even make up some of the stuff she wrote. Here's just an example, as quoted by her friend Bindel

cross-dressing is a result of “men adopting the behaviours of a subordinate group in order to enjoy the sexual satisfaction of masochism”


and this, explained by Bindel here
Appealing to their heterosexual sisters to get rid of men "from your beds and your heads", they started a debate, which reached its height in 1981 with the publication of an infamous booklet, Love Your Enemy? The Debate Between Heterosexual Feminism and Political Lesbianism (LYE). In this, the RFs wrote that, "all feminists can and should be lesbians. Our definition of a political lesbian is a woman-identified woman who does not fuck men. It does not mean compulsory sexual activity with women."

The message of LYE immediately provoked a strong and often negative reaction. While some radical feminists agreed with the group's arguments, many went wild at being told they were "counter-revolutionaries", undermining the fight for women's liberation by sleeping with men. The main author of LYE, Sheila Jeffreys, says that the backlash to the booklet "even among lesbians, was quite shocking. Quite a few were angry with the group for writing it. They felt it exposed them to hostility from outraged heterosexual feminists."

It's no surprise that the booklet was so controversial. "We think serious feminists have no choice but to abandon heterosexuality," it reads. "Only in the system of oppression that is male supremacy does the oppressor actually invade and colonise the interior of the body of the oppressed." It also asserted that penetration "is more than a symbol, its function and effect is the punishment and control of women".


Maybe my words are too harsh but I can't get past the transphobia either and what I saw as deliberately divisive rhetoric that wasn't coming from a position of love for all women or equity for all humans.

It's good to see you btw

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
10. Political lesbians? Oh my. I remember the first time I heard that from a rad feminist.
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:15 PM
May 2012

I told her she was bonkers. Thanks for doing the time reading Jeffreys and saving me from the experience.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
11. You're so welcome but look at this, which is such a welcome difference
Thu May 31, 2012, 10:48 PM
May 2012

Have you ever heard of Cynthia Enloe?

I just came across her a few minutes ago and I'm already in .

This is the paragraph that did it and I started a thread here

Let's go back to this Dole California ship in the background. That’s a gendered ship! Let’s look at some of the gendered aspects involved in this banana boat. Who produces Dole bananas? It’s women that are working on the banana plantations in Central America. And what about the ship’s crew? It's a small crew because it's a container ship—but they aren't simply ‘men’. I would guess they are Filipino men navigating bananas from Central America to California. And they have relationships at home; they're sending money home. Dole, moreover, has a whole executive hierarchy that, in my guess, are male and probably they don't look anything like the crew on that ship, let alone like the plantation workers. And it is here in San Diego feeding the American public—through shopping done by women. So, that ship is definitely making the world go round. It's definitely key not only to what we eat for breakfast, but also to globalized capitalism. You can't explain that ship in its entirety without asking which men, why those men, and what their relationship is to which women.





He loved Big Brother

(1,257 posts)
17. Good on you for devaluing lesbianism.
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 02:03 AM
Jun 2012

Feminists definitely need to learn more about how to insult people based on their sexuality, especially people that do not fit within someone's ideal construct of how to do lesbianism the "correct" way.

Neoma

(10,039 posts)
18. I would say that saying all women should be lesbians as a feminist cause...
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 08:41 AM
Jun 2012

Is an insult to both the gay and the feminist community.

Gormy Cuss

(30,884 posts)
20. How is a straight woman a lesbian?
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 11:40 AM
Jun 2012

Last edited Sun Jun 3, 2012, 01:58 PM - Edit history (1)

Would you please explain that to me?

The term wasn't used to describe women who are attracted to other women. It was used to describe women who self-identify as straight but who for political reasons won't have sex with men.

eta: I'm sorry if the above seems too harsh. The context in which I called a fellow feminist bonkers was when she was telling me that I couldn't call myself a feminist if I was having sex with men and she described herself as a political lesbian. I never said that she couldn't self identify that way, just that I thought her philosophy was bonkers.



Starry Messenger

(32,375 posts)
21. "Radfem political lesbians:"
Sun Jun 3, 2012, 12:16 PM
Jun 2012
http://fucknoradfems.tumblr.com/post/21850907905/radfem-political-lesbians



<snip>

“I’m a lesbian for political reasons.”

<snip>

What a fun way to deny having heterosexual privilege, ehh?

While making life harder for lesbians (and I mean all lesbians, including the ones you fucking radfem assholes refuse to acknowledge are women too!) who don’t have that privilege.

<snip>

And then there is the wonderful way in which your bullshit helps perpetuate the belief that homosexuality is something a person chooses. Another fun thing that gay people will never get away from!

<snip>



Catherina

(35,568 posts)
16. Good one. It's Lysistrata imposing celibacy on all women
Fri Jun 1, 2012, 12:38 PM
Jun 2012

Sackcloth and ashes to perpetuate guilt complexes about the natural human practice of sex that keeps life going.

Catherina

(35,568 posts)
7. Responses to RadFem2012 show our queer, feminist communities are standing strong against transphobia
Thu May 31, 2012, 05:36 PM
May 2012

The responses to RadFem2012 show our queer and feminist communities to be standing strong against transphobia


Earlier this month, feminists were dismayed to see that the upcoming radical feminist conference RadFem2012 had installed a policy of only allowing ‘women born women living as women’ to attend – a clumsy phrase originally reading ‘biological women only’, and specifically intended to exclude transgender women.

Further, RadFem2012 had booked Sheila Jeffreys to speak – an old-school, terrifyingly transphobic radfem activist who has before called for transition-related surgery to be banned and who has a forthcoming book in which she criticises the very existence of transgender people. I was amazed that feminists existed who still felt that the human rights of trans folks could be a matter up for debate by cisgender people, let alone that there was evidently an entire feminist conference willing to platform and support these views.

A resistance quickly mobilised in response to RadFem2012 – a few people got angry on Twitter, and the conversation grew to a huge group of trans feminists, cis allies and many people in between. The blogosphere has exploded with messages of support and solidarity.

...

Large organisations have also expressed their support. The NUS Women’s Campaign said, ‘”We are committed to ending transphobia … and as such we condemn RadFem’s policy.” The Brighton Feminist Collective said, ‘”We will not support an event which fights for equality by promoting inequality, nor will we accept this strange formation of a hierarchy of women.’” Individual university-based feminist societies, including the Royal Holloway and Oxford groups, have also issued statements of support.

The venue, Conway Hall, has now expressed concerns to the conference’s organisers over hate speech and the legality of excluding transgender women from the conference, and they are currently in discussions.

...

http://www.lesbilicious.co.uk/the-responses-to-radfem2012-show-our-queer-and-feminist-communities-to-be-standing-strong-against-transphobia/



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