channel. Come on Viacom give it up.

He's on right now, rerun anyway, and I'm not finding anything about it for sure on the Google.

I've watched his show a few times and found it outrageously humorous. But he isn't the only one writing for his show. Sometimes you try to push the envelope and you end up crashing and burning. I can say from experience that when you get interrupted on stage during a scripted monologue and you have to speak off the cuff, the results sometimes blow up in your face. I believe his apology was necessary and I don't defend what he said, but he did apologize. He knows it was a shitty line. Now let's all move on.

Frankly, if he had said something I found offensive I would have booed or stood up and walked out. It's not my place to ruin everybody's night.

What would have really been funny is if five guys would have jumped up on stage and raped Tosh right there for everyone to see. Yep, funny.

I guess men getting raped is funny, or at least acceptable.

Hell I remember Leno making a crack about that and he's as vanilla as it gets.


/yes this is a double standard.

Last edited Thu Jul 12, 2012, 08:01 PM - Edit history (1)

You've wandered into a safe haven group for feminists and as such you will find little tolerance of rape jokes of any kind here.

You make a good point about having an off-the-cuff remark blow up in your face. However, it was way beyond just a shitty line and while it may be easy for some to move on, I don't think it's that easy for people who have been raped or who have close friends and relatives who have been raped.

Remember that the woman who found it offensive confronted him (a far more direct version of booing IMHO.) If anyone ruined the night it was Tosh.

and like I said I'm not going to defend him.

Some things cross the line. I am certain that there are things you would stand up "and ruin everybody's night" to speak out against. The women involved in this situation felt that this was one of those times, and based on the reports I've read, I tend to agree with them. Tosh's own reaction to their complaint reinforces the seriousness of it. I'm sure that stand up professionals have to know how to deal with audiences. Tosh's reaction to a complaint from the audience was to threaten the woman with gang rape. That's not cool and it's not something many people are willing to "move on" and forget.

Daniel Tosh and rape jokes: Still not funny
Inappropriate humor is often the best kind. But Daniel Tosh's gross jokes about rape cross a basic line of decency

<snip>

Daniel Tosh’s humor, however, is utterly lacking in grace. The star of Comedy Central’s “Tosh.0″ does not possess the transformative power of his betters, so when he tries to be edgy and transgressive, it tends to fall flat. In April, the unapologetic misogynist encouraged his audience to film themselves touching women softly on their stomachs. I am not quite sure how this encroachment on personal space and ignorance of appropriate boundaries constitutes humor, but it takes all kinds. (I’m also a woman — we are, from what I hear, not funny.) Nonetheless, the incident gave me pause, particularly when his ardent fans actually began filming themselves touching women softly on their stomachs and posting the videos to YouTube. Somehow, they thought this behavior was acceptable because the comic they admired told them so. You’d be amazed what people are willing to do when they are given permission, either implicitly or explicitly.

Given Tosh’s brand of humor and his general history of immature, frattish humor, I wasn’t really surprised when I heard he made inappropriate statements about rape at the Laugh Factory last Friday. Rape jokes are part of his shtick. During his Laugh Factory set, a young woman in the audience yelled, “Actually, rape jokes are never funny.” Tosh is said to have maturely responded, “Wouldn’t it be funny if that girl got raped by like, five guys right now? Like right now? What if a bunch of guys just raped her …”

What if, indeed.

There’s no better follow-up for a rape joke than a gang rape joke. Because if rape is funny, gang rape is funnier.

<snip>

Rape humor is designed to remind women that they are still not quite equal. Just as their bodies and reproductive freedom are open to legislation and public discourse, so are their other issues. When women respond negatively to misogynistic or rape humor they are “sensitive” and branded as feminist a word that has, as of late, become a catch-all term for, “woman who does not tolerate bullshit.”

More:
http://www.salon.com/2012/07/12/daniel_tosh_and_rape_jokes_still_not_funny/

Just as i agree with Cannes not showing the Iranian film "the Anti Semite". Guy has free speech, doesnt mean he has to be given a stage.

Yes, he has free speech and can say what he wants. But that doesn't mean that we have to give him a public forum to do it.

There have been a lot of people telling me that I'm violating his freedom of speech. I'm not. His words can and probably are considered fighting words, which are an exception to the First Amendment.

Thank you for posting this in here. I've got nearly 30,000 signatures on the petition and that number is steadily increasing. It's really, really nice to know so many people agree with me.

If anyone's interested, I also wrote an article about the controversy at a website my friend launched a few days ago: http://feminspire.com/daniel-tosh-all-the-other-assholes-need-to-stop-making-rape-jokes/

to not pay him for being offensive. He can still go wherever he wants and spout his offensive crap. I can choose not to go to a comedy club and see his offensive crap. But I also do not think that Viacom should give him the stage to say his offensive crap and pay him for it.

Thank you for getting the petition going. I signed. Good article too.

Private citizens have the right to organize petitions requesting that private businesses like comedy clubs and cable networks refrain from offensive speech. This is as "free market" as it gets! Tosh has the right to make offensive jokes. He doesn't have the right to shut down people's reactions to his comments. Your petition is an exercise of your own First Amendment right to free speech.

Welcome to DU and I hope that you hang around our Feminists group here!

You can ask a network not to air his show, or a club not to hire him, but that is very different than arguing that his speech is not constitutionally protected. It is. It can be vile, hateful, and obnoxious, but it's still protected by the 1st Amendment.

The so-called "Fighting Words" doctrine has been seriously (and correctly, to my mind) weakened since the 1942 Chaplinsky decision. While speech we find noxious is protected, so is other potentially unpopular speech. For instance, a person getting on stage at a Fundamentalist Christian Rock concert and delivering a speech to an anti-gay crowd, advocating marriage equality for LGBT citizens, could just as easily be considered "fighting words" in that an argument could be made that they were deliberately designed to upset the audience. Limiting speech because some or lots of people don't like it is a very bad road to go down IMHO.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fighting_words

Well done!

anyone defending Tosh should really take a look in the mirror.

IMHO, this is what Tosh did in this situation, and that is why I feel it crossed the line.

Yay for not watching television.

he has shown himself to be an utter asshole. That was inexcusable.

Good riddance to bad rubbish.

The club manager disputes the woman's version of the exchange:

Just like Ballet, Just like a poetry reading just like mime, just like all of Broadway, classical, and a lot of performances.

Ever notice that almost every college sport has a band EXCEPT tennis,rowing, golf, track?

That is because in some areas any other rhythm or outside sound is Heckling.

Spend some time doing ANYTHING memorized onstage in the same room as a noisy espresso machine if you don't think that this person's interruption didn't derail the performance. If you think that it didn't then you are saying that this joke was part of Tosh's normal set which we know isn't true.

Think of the reaction if this person had complained about the rape scene in an opera?

If Tosh and the heckler are both adults then you have to hold them to the same level of responsibility for their actions. You can't say that Tosh should have had the empathy to know rape jokes are wrong and then absolve the person who interrupted by saying she shouldn't also have the empathy to know she is derailing the show. Whether or not an unfinished lead in to a rape joke that might have been an intelligent lampoon of rape culture (not likely w Tosh) is worth putting a whole room through that is up for debate, but make no mistake she is a Heckler.

Tosh has been a professional comedian for long enough to know how to roll with it. Tosh had the choice to ignore her just as he would have ignored pans clanging in the kitchen or sirens from passing fire trucks.
Had this woman engaged in a back and forth with him or yell insults about him (i.e. heckling) I could see how that may derail the routine. No account says any thing like that.

If anything derailed his routine it was his ad libbed comment about this woman and multiple rapes.

Tosh has compounded the issue by the language in his tweets. Only a self-absorbed or immature person would call this woman a heckler as part of an attempted apology.

that nothing the musician goes through with interruptions is comparable.

Try leading an audience with just your voice for 55 minutes sometime. No singing.

Last edited Sun Jul 15, 2012, 05:40 PM - Edit history (1)

Come on, that is ridiculous.

She wasn't afraid she was going to be gangraped in that club in front of the cameras and a hundred + witnesses.

She was embarrassed because she heckled a comedian and he ridiculed her.

Don't heckle comedians. If you don't like what they're saying then leave and demand your money back.

/will you put together a petition to make sure these women never work again?

And "The Talk" hosts and audience thinking that story is a laugh riot isn't a sign of sensitivity either.

is the very definition of heckling.

And I have a hard time being outraged over this woman being offended by rape jokes against women when rape jokes against men (don't drop the soap hur hur) and men being absolutely mutilated are deemed by the vast majority to be not only acceptable but down-right hilarious.

The goal of feminism is for men and women to be equal right? So in this case equality would mean she can suck it up and laugh as a member of the opposite sex jokes about her gender being abused. That is what's expected of men.

/and my criticism wasn't simply leveled at the hosts and the audience. But also at the thousands of people who remained silent on that but are demanding everyone else be outraged over this.

Simple yelling out one comment, that rape jokes aren't funny doesn't rise to that level. Yelling out something about Tosh sucking because he told a rape joke or booing him, that would be heckling. Tosh was quick to characterize it as heckling in his tweets. That's pretty smart because it evokes an image of someone who's being disruptive to the poor comic.

If he was telling a "don't drop the soap" joke and this woman objected, would that be okay with you? Of course not. But on the issue of shower/prison rape jokes, how does dismissing this incident help address the problem of popular acceptance of shower/prison rape jokes? If anything, building public support for this woman would be a positive step towards educating people that rape jokes just aren't funny regardless of the target.

I remember a certain senator who merely said "you lie". Just two little words and people here were ready to start a civil war.

A short sentence can certainly be disruptive.

Here's another group of people refusing to laugh about male rape because that's totally not funny: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=fvwrel&NR=1&v=LLWlBgj0uOc

If he was telling a "don't drop the soap" joke and this woman objected, would that be okay with you?

But on the issue of shower/prison rape jokes, how does dismissing this incident help address the problem of popular acceptance of shower/prison rape jokes?

If anything, building public support for this woman would be a positive step towards educating people that rape jokes just aren't funny regardless of the target.

She made a single statement which was about the subject, not the speaker. It's flat out spin to call that heckling.

"Unlikely to change" is right if people are going to diminish the complaint when someone dares to speak up about rape jokes.

audience to hear.

What would you call that?

This isn't a dialogue. He's giving his spiel and the audience listens. She chose to break that arrangement.

Tell ya what: go to a comedy club and interupt their routine by pointing out that their last few jokes were not funny. See what the consensus is there: lighthearted and welcomed audience participation or heckling that will get you savaged.

"Unlikely to change" is right if people are going to diminish the complaint when someone dares to speak up about rape jokes.

Last edited Mon Jul 16, 2012, 06:07 PM - Edit history (1)

Now that's heckling.

A reminder: the topic of this thread is this incident and rape jokes. Correct me if I'm wrong but you seem to be suggesting that because other audiences laugh at rape jokes aimed at male targets, this woman and anyone who supports her should just put up and shut up.

I won't argue that the rape of men should be fodder for comedians. I will argue however that rape-of-women jokes are far less socially acceptable specifically because people speak up about it. I say less socially acceptable because obviously there are still people who thinks it's a great topic for humor else comics like Tosh would stop including it in their acts.

And it's important in these discussions to clearly understand what the issue is.

It is being presented as "rape jokes aren't funny".

This is close but in reality it's "rape jokes aren't funny . . . against women".

It's clear from context and the complete lack of outrage over rape jokes where men are being raped (or mutilated) that "rape isn't funny" isn't a gender-blind truism.

So the discussion is based on the assumption that mocking men who are raped is acceptable but is it ok to treat women as equals on this or are they in a special protected class?

Personally I think that is a far greater tragedy than a heckler having her feelings hurt. It's based on the assumption that men, even innocent ones, are somehow vile animals who deserve the punishment of rape; so it's funny. Whereas of course women are perpetual victims so no such victimization is funny (you can find other examples: husband beating wife = scumbag, not something to joke about; wife beating husband = sitcom gold!).

This outrage just further cements in the public mentality the notion that men deserve it (since it's impossible to see this outrage and not notice that this is a one way street when gender is concerned).

"growing acceptance that joking about raping women is becoming less socially acceptable"

There is growing acceptance for it that is conversely becoming less acceptable?

(Edit: Sorry, I reread the sentence and have now figured out what you meant. My bad. The rest of my post still applies, though )

I actually think that it's been unacceptable and it remains unacceptable, in fact if it wasn't unacceptable to begin with the so-called "shock value" (shock, yes, value not so much) of the comments wouldn't be there to begin with, which apparently was this a-hole's intent or shtick.

I think the speaking out around it probably raises awareness, which is of course a good thing, and certainly may make comedians look at their material through other eyes. But I don't think there has been much change, up or down, in the general acceptability level of this sort of thing.

I really shouldn't try debating when I'm barely awake. I've rephrased it.

What I meant was that I have noticed that tolerance for rape jokes has diminished greatly over the past 30-40 years. It's one of the positive outcomes of the 1970s feminists movements. It was more or less acceptable to tell rape jokes years ago as long as the word rape wasn't used. Men would "have their way" with women instead. The subtext was that once the man forced himself on her, she'd love it and him.

4thlaw keeps pointing out that there is acceptability of men-to-men rape jokes and I agree that they should not be tolerated any more than men raping women jokes.

I agree with all you've written.

And since you just joined in April 2012, how would you even know what DUers thought back then? Have you had more than one accounts at DU?

no but I have read the articles for a while before choosing to start an account.

And it seems like you're focusing on the wrong part of my comment.

Iluminating for sure.

the greatest insult ever levied at a group of people ever in history, ever.

Totally true and in no way is this an attempt on your part to derail the conversation with feigned offense.

Nope.

I am not trying to derail anything, just reacted to an insult to DU made by a poster commenting on something that happened before he was a member.

the slight tongue in cheek exaggeration or the fact that I commented on something that happened before I became a member?

had a great segment on this today. If you are a feminist and you are not watching MHP every weekend (2 hrs on Saturday am and 2 on Sunday am) you are missing out on the best conversation on women's issues and politics that has ever been available in the msm.

Tune in - you will be shouting in agreement at the tv.

RAPE is not funny, no joke or story is funny or clever about rape. Maybe those that think it is, need to be transported back in time and live in Britannia during the Vikings raids or in a town being destroyed by a Khan in China. I could only guess what their final thoughts would be as they were butchered alive while watching their wife and children get raped and then set on fire.

Yeah HAHA...not very funny at all.

Of course I always assume people like that have no grasp of history or the impact their actual words have on others. He obviously did not care what the lady had to say and 'joked' about her getting raped...not funny, maybe he should be looking for another job. Maybe he will not be able to find more work...now that would be funny.

anyone know?

I'm curious to know whether the apology means anything to other members of the group.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
"Never one to typically apologize for his jokes, Tosh felt it appropriate to issue a public apology via Twitter in this situation.

"all the out of context misquotes aside, i'd like to sincerely apologize," he wrote Tuesday, linking to the blog post.

"the point i was making before i was heckled is there are awful things in the world but you can still make jokes about them," he continued. "



Read more: http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/daniel-tosh-apologizes-twitter-rape-joke-stand-up-routine-article-1.1112336#ixzz20pdYCpQt

Nor does he really seem concerned he advocated for the gang rape of the so-called heckler.

WHOOSH

Mr Tosh forgot one of the #1 comedy rules.

You are misusing the term and using faulty logic.

I've never liked shock jocks or "comidians" like this.

but still and none-the-less good that they removed him

wouldn't break my heart if they did though