For Social Security Disability and Supplement Security Income (SSI) the issue is NOT if you are disabled, but will the disability last more the one year AND prevent you from doing Full Time work?

Depression/Anxiety that prevents you from showing up for work, completing tasks, doing tasks, working with Co-Workers and Supervisors, would make you unable to work and thus disabled.

Please note this requires you to comply with all reasonable medical procedures, i.e. you can NOT refuse to undergo any reasonable medical procedure that permits you to work. If you do you MUST explain why to Social Security. If SSA believes your refusal is justified not an issue but if the refusal is NOT justified then you will be denied Disability. Refusal to take Medications is rarely justifiable unless there an well known severe side affects with the medications. When it comes to operations, unless it is very minor, Social Security will rarely call the decision to refuse the operation into question. If you do what your treating medical providers tell you, not a problem, if you do NOT do as your medical providers advises you, can be a problem.

Another problem is you are working at the present time, you will have to show that you loss the job because you could NO longer do it, not that you thought you could get Disability (Thus it is better to be fired then to quit). Please note, if you are working only part time, and earning less then $1000 a Month, your continued work is NOT as issue (unless it can be shown you can do that type of work for a longer time period, i.e. 30 plus hours a week). Work is only an issue if you are working more then 30 hours a week or making more then $1000 a month.

On the other hand, Social Security will take into consideration assistance given you by your employer and co-workers who tried to make it possible for you to work, if such assistance is something extra ordinarily not what is normal in the industry (Accommodation to meet the requirements of the Americans with Disability Act can meet that requirement, if such acts were NOT normal in the type of work you are doing).

One piece of advice, on the issue of Depression/Anxiety the issue of what type of work you can do with your Depression/Anxiety is the key to the case. Often your doctors will report what are your mental restrictions, but it will take a Vocational Expert at the Administrative Law Judge hearing to report what jobs such a person can or can not do. A Vocational Expert is almost NEVER called in on the initial application, and thus most people with mental Impairments are denied. You will have to appeal for an Administrative Law Judge Hearing, and at that hearing see how the Vocation Expert report what jobs a person with the mental and physical limitation you have can do. The Administrative Law Judge generally asks the questions to the Vocational Expert. You or your attorney can also ask the Vocational Expert questions. The issue is then up to the Administrative Law Judge as to how disabled you are and if there are Jobs that exist in Substantial Numbers in the National Economy someone with your condition can do.

Notice the test is NOT if you have depression or anxiety but HOW does the Depression an/or anxiety prevent you from working.

Given you are working, you will have to show the Administrative Law Judge that you could NOT continue in your present job do to your disability. You will have to have medical evidence that shows how your disability prevents you from doing work related activities (SSA does NOT believe your doctor has the knowledge or background to decide if you are unable to work, but your doctor can only report what you can physically or mentally do given your disability, SSA will hire a Vocational Expert to report on what jobs a person with your mental and physical restrictions can do).

One last Comment on Vocational Experts. All the Vocational Experts I have run across will report there are NO full time work someone can do IF you are going to miss more then 2 days of work a month every month OR you will be off tasks more then 10% of the time (Other then Normal Break periods, which is 15 minutes in the morning, 15 minutes in the afternoon and 30 minutes for lunch). If either of those two facts are determined by the Administrative law Judge you will win, but you will have to show that one or the other situation is occurring in your current job OR will occur if you found other work.

Thus time on task and how often you miss work at your present job is an important factor in any claim for Disability.

I am including with this letter a print out I give my clients in ALL disability cases which goes into a little more detail then the above:

THE FOLLOWING PAGES ARE MEANT AS A GUIDE ONLY. THE EXACT SOCIAL SECURITY ADMINISTRATION (SSA) REGULATIONS ARE TO COMPLEX TO BE EXPLAINED IN A SHORT PAPER. THE FOLLOWING PAGES ARE TO GIVE YOU, THE CLAIMANT, AN IDEA OF HOW SSA WILL DETERMINE WHETHER YOU ARE ELIGIBLE FOR BENEFITS.

DISABILITY DECISION TREE USED BY SSA TO DETERMINE DISABILITY:

The following is the systematic method used by SSA to determine whether someone is disabled or not. It is included with this form for your information on HOW SSA will determine if you are disabled or not.

1. Is claimant engaged in substantial gainful activity (SGA)? (20 CFR § 404.1571 et seq). SGA is defined as earning more than $1000 per month.
If you are earning, $1000 or more per month you are NOT disabled.
If you are earning less than $1000 the Claimant Proceeds to Step Two (2).
.
2. DOES CLAIMANT HAVE A SEVERE IMPAIRMENT? (A DEMISE TEST).{(20 CFR § 1520(b)}. This test is designed to eliminate anyone who is not suffering from any impairment. "Demise" is Latin for minor or insignificant. If you are suffering from any impairment that affects your day to day activities you survive Step Two.

3. Does claimant have an impairment that meets a listing? {20 CFR § 404.1520(d)}.
IF YES, Than the claimant is disabled; IF NO, Than you go to Step 3.
The listing of impairments are listed in Appendix 1 to the Social Security Regulations.
If you met the requirements of any listing or combination of listings you are disabled.
If you do not met the requirements of any listing or combinations of listing you proceed to Step Four (4)

4. Is claimant able to perform past relevant work. {20 CFR § 1520 (e)}
If YES, Claimant is NOT Disabled. If NO, go to Step Five (5).

5. a. Does Claimant have a exertional impairment?
If no go to Step 5c, If yes than go to Step 5b
b. Is claimant disabled under the "Tables". SSA refers to Appendix 2 of the SSA regulations as the "Tables". The "Tables" are decisional trees to help ALJs decide whether someone is disabled or not. If you are "disabled" under the "Tables" you are disabled, if not go to step 5c.

THE TABLES (Simplified):
HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION OR MORE
TO BE DISABLED
AGE 60-65 -TO BE DISABLEDYOU MUST BE INCAPABLE OF DOING "HEAVY WORK".
AGE 55-59 - TO BE DISABLEDYOU MUST BE INCAPABLE OF DOING "MEDIUM WORK".
AGE 50-55 - TO BE DISABLEDYOU MUST BE INCAPABLE OF DOING "LIGHT WORK".
AGE BELOW 50 - TO BE DISABLEDYOU MUST BE INCAPABLE OF DOING "SEDENTARY WORK".
*********************************************************************************
LESS THAN HIGH SCHOOL EDUCATION BUT MORE THAN 7 YEARS OF SCHOOLING.- "LIMITED EDUCATION" - Same as for High School or More Grid.
*********************************************************************************
LESS THAN 7 YEARS OF SCHOOLING.-"MARGINAL EDUCATION" Same Test as for High School or More Grid.
*********************************************************************************
ILLITERATE - TO BE DISABLED - Same as for High School or More Grid.
EXCEPT: The test for "SEDENTARY WORK" starts at age 45.
c. Does claimant have a significant non-exertional impairment? If either yes or no go to Step 5d.

d. Can the claimant perform other work as it is perform in the national economy. {20 CFR § 404.1520 (f)}
If yes, Claimant is NOT disabled.
If no, Claimant is disabled.

This is where they will decide whether your child's father is elegible for SSI.

VOCATIONAL GUIDELINES -_NOTES - 20 CFR § 404 and 416 of Appendix 2

NOTE #1: The regulations are always Changing this is meant as a gudielnes of the regulations NOT the regulations themselves.

Note # 2: The exertional limitations stated in the “Simplified Tables” ONLY APPLIES TO CLAIMANTS WHO SURVIVE TO PARAGRAPH 5d on the Sequential Evaluation Process (page 17). Step 5 is after the ALJ has made a finding of not meeting a listing (Step 3), a finding of in-ability to return to past relevant work (Step 4) and a finding that the claimant is suffering from an severe impairment (Step 2).

Note #3: Age, education, exertional limitations and past work experience are the main factors considered by SSA when SSA determines whether a claimant is capable or not capable of performing work as it is performed in the national economy.

Note # 4: WARNING: If a claimant has a skilled or semi-skilled experience and those skills are transferable to other jobs that exist in the national economy, such a claimant can never be disabled.

Note #5: These Vocational Guidelines is a vocational determination, not a medical determination, but it is a vocational determination based on the testimony of the limitation of the claimant and the medical records. Generally a Vocational Expert (VE) will attend the SSA hearing and will testify to the following:
1. Whether the past relevant work of the claimant is skilled or semi-skilled;
2. Whether the skills are transferable; and
3. What other jobs can a person with the disabilities of the claimant perform.

Note #6: The biggest factors (besides disability) in determining if a claimant is disabled are education and age. The “Simplified Guidelines” attached hereto is a Simplified BREAKDOWN OF THE "TABLES" SET FORTH IN APPENDIX 2 OF THE SSR REGULATIONS.

Note #7: For Simplicity the “Simplified Guidelines” Attached Hereto Assume No Previous Work History and Non-transferable Work Skills. Furthermore All of the “Simplified Guidelines” Assumes "Unskilled" Work Training.

SSI _ supplemental Security Income
RSDI - Retirement, Surviors, Disabilty Income (often called SSD, Social Security Disability a term I will use below):


MAJOR DIFFERENCE BETWEEN SOCIAL SECURITY DISABILITY (SSD) AND SUPPLEMENTAL SECURITY INCOME (SSI). SSD (RSDI) is set by 42 U.S.C.A. § 402, SSI is set by 42 U.S.C.A. § 1381 of the Social Security Act.

Both SSI and SSDI use the same test for Disability ie. Disability is defined as being unable to do any work that exist in substantial Numbers in the National Economy

For SSD Payments Starts Six Months after the date SSA determined you first became disabled.

SSI pays for the first the month you made an Application for SSI or you became Disabiled whichever is later.

SSDI is Payed from Social Security Taxes. SSI is paid from General Funds (Income Taxes).

Both SSI and SSDI are Administrated by Social Security Administration (SSA).

A person on SSDI can be awarded disability for a period prefore he made an application (but not more than a year before), SSI will NOT pay for any period prior to the application date.

SSDI has Spouse/Survivor Benefits, SSI does not.

SSDI Payments are based on his work History and will be Roughly 60% of your his income over the ten years before the onset of your disability

SSI will pay $552.00 ($579.40 if he lived in Pennsylvania, Some state supplment the SSI grant, Pennsylvania does it by $27.40, some states give more, some states less, some states none).

SSDI is NOT Affected by other Income, SSI is REDUCED by any other income.

SSDI check hits on the Third of the Month, SSI payment hits on the First of the Month.

There are NO Asset Limitations for SSDI, but a SSI recipent can only have the following assets, One Automobile, one house he is living in, Household furnishings and $2000 in liquid assets ($3000 for a couple).

Medical Coverage of SSDI is Medicare (after a 18 month weighting period). SSI medical care i provided by Public Welfare.

I am adding the listing of Impairments for Anxiety Disorders. The listing of impairments is used in Step Three of the Sequential Evaluation system used by SSA to see if you are disabled or not. the Sequential Evaluation system is a FIVE step process, you can win at Step three but if you do NOT you go to Step Four and Five of the process, where the above comments as to your ability to do work comes into play. At Step three the Administrative Law Judge will ONLY consider of you meet the listing. I.e. if you do NOT meet the requirements of a listing, you still are evaluated under the ability to do other work at Step Five of the Sequential Evaluation system.

Listing 12.06 of the Listing, please note the category 12.00 goes into details on what the following means, so you should also read Category 12,00 (listing here: http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm )
12.06 Anxiety-related disorders: In these disorders anxiety is either the predominant disturbance or it is experienced if the individual attempts to master symptoms; for example, confronting the dreaded object or situation in a phobic disorder or resisting the obsessions or compulsions in obsessive compulsive disorders.

The required level of severity for these disorders is met when the requirements in both A and B are satisfied, or when the requirements in both A and C are satisfied.

A. Medically documented findings of at least one of the following:

1. Generalized persistent anxiety accompanied by three out of four of the following signs or symptoms:

a. Motor tension; or

b. Autonomic hyperactivity; or

c. Apprehensive expectation; or

d. Vigilance and scanning; or

2. A persistent irrational fear of a specific object, activity, or situation which results in a compelling desire to avoid the dreaded object, activity, or situation; or

3. Recurrent severe panic attacks manifested by a sudden unpredictable onset of intense apprehension, fear, terror and sense of impending doom occurring on the average of at least once a week; or

4. Recurrent obsessions or compulsions which are a source of marked distress; or

5. Recurrent and intrusive recollections of a traumatic experience, which are a source of marked distress;

AND

B. Resulting in at least two of the following:

1. Marked restriction of activities of daily living; or

2. Marked difficulties in maintaining social functioning; or

3. Marked difficulties in maintaining concentration, persistence, or pace; or

4. Repeated episodes of decompensation, each of extended duration.

OR

C. Resulting in complete inability to function independently outside the area of one's home.
Listing 12.06
http://www.ssa.gov/disability/professionals/bluebook/12.00-MentalDisorders-Adult.htm

Please note, if you lose your job, your loss of Income may make you eligible for Legal Aid Assistance (Providing you are NOT eligible today, a subject we do NOT need to get into for this discussion) . Most Legal Aid agencies do both Social Security AND Unemployment Insurance law.

As to your claim for Social Security Disability, I do recommend you stay on the job till your employer decides to terminate you. At that point you can apply for Unemployment Insurance AND Social Security. In all states that I know of there is no law saying you can NOT do both, thus I recommend you do both.

Furthermore the test for Unemployment Insurance and Disability are different, you could, in theory, be eligible for BOTH at the same time (and NOT eligible for both or for one but not the other).

SSA looks to full time employment, Unemployment Insurance looks at any employment. Thus you may be unable to do full time employment and thus be eligible for Social Security, and at the same time be "Ready, Able and Willing" to do any work, thus also be eligible for Unemployment Insurance.

Please note, Social Security Disability is Federal Law and thus the same nationwide. Unemployment Insurance is a joint federal-state system, where variation between the states do exists, but the overall nature of unemployment law in national.

Thus it is FEDERAL COURTS that decide issue as to Social Security Disability, but it is the State Courts that decide issue of Unemployment Insurance, but those rulings are based on State laws passed to be in compliance with Federal Law. Thus some flexibility exists as to unemployment Insurance Law but that flexibility tends to be on the edges of Unemployment law NOT at its center which is Unemployment Insurance for any worker whose work is terminated for no fault of his own.

I mention this for when it comes to Unemployment Law, I am familiar with Pennsylvania version of Unemployment Law, Ohio and other states have different rules but all states tend to use the same basic rules and thus I use Pennsylvania Law for this paper, but you will need to check with a local attorney to make sure the same rules apply to you.

The advantage of being terminated by your employer for Social Security Disability is that such termination is clear evidence that you could no longer do the work you are doing and thus the only issue is are there other work you can do.

The advantage of being terminated by your employer in terms of Unemployment Insurance is that the employer has the burden to show you did "willful" misconduct and thus not eligible for unemployment (Willful Misconduct is a broad term in most states, including NOT doing things the in the best interest of the employer). A refusal to do a job is willful misconduct, but an Inability to do a job is NOT willful misconduct, i.e. being terminated for being unable to do a job means you get unemployment Insurance when being fired for REFUSING to do the same job means you get NO Unemployment benefits.

Thus stay on the job, try to do it the best you can, leave them write you up, point out why you are not doing the job (i.e. your mental condition) and wait for them to terminate you.

If you quit instead of being terminated, the burden of proof is on YOU, not your employer, to show you had just cause to quit. This shift of the burden of proof makes it harder for you to get Unemployment Benefits.

Side note: On employment, follow whatever steps required in your employment handbook. Employment Handbooks are NOT your employment contract (And the courts have long made that the law) BUT if you or your employer do NOT follow what is set forth in the handbook as to your termination, the person NOT following the handbook will be held to what the handbooks said they must do. Most handbooks require employers to report problems to a change of command, you must do so. Most handbooks require verbal, then written write-ups before anyone can be terminated Employers will be held to that standard.

Employment handbooks are written with Unemployment Insurance in mind, thus while handbooks are NOT employment contract (and thus can NOT be used in any lawsuit involving unlawful termination) there are used in Unemployment insurance cases all the time.

Second Side Note: Employment Law and Unemployment Insurance Law are two different things. The above comments is to Unemployment Insurance law NOT to Employment law. Employment law is an almost exclusive area of State law with minimal Federal coverage, unlike Unemployment Law where the Federal Government set up the system and funds the system even through the states pay the benefits and collect taxes to pay those benefits (and it is State Employees who decide the cases and any appeals is to the State Courts not the Federal Courts).

You have provided an amazing wealth of info on filing a disability claim, Happyslug.

I posted this in another thread, so please pardon the duplication, however you seem to be the one in the know, so I wanted to post again to this thread...

My sister has had increasing problems with nerve pain for some years now. She is trying to file for disability, but is having a problem finding a doctor that will do the disability forms. I'm not a doctor, but I believe she needs some neuro testing in order to document the problems and show the severity of them. Despite our pleas to do so, she did not seek help while she was working and had insurance, so her problems are not documented very well. She is one of those people who does not like to admit she is not well.

She is now trying to find a family doctor to begin the process of getting tested and getting the needed medical records, but every doctor's office she calls states that they do not do disability paperwork because it's too extensive and takes too much time. This has astounded us.

She quit her job in July of 2010 to see if being away from all of the computer work would help heal her issues. It did not, and in fact her symptoms have escalated. Her nerve pain began in her hands and moved into her arms. It is now in her feet. She cannot even write now, due to pain, numbness and cramping, and standing for more than 10 minutes causes her great pain in her feet and toes. Her savings have run out, and she now must do something to get income to pay her bills.

What is she to do when she cannot find a doctor that will agree to file the required forms?

Remember Social Security has a duty to develop the record, INCLUDING sending her to consultative exams. Social Security will pay for those exams (an exam done by a doctor paid for by Social Security). Sometimes you end up being examined by a doctor who practice is something else, but they can still report on the restrictions your sister is suffering from. Thus tell her to apply for Social Security, tell Social Security of her restrictions and lets see what Social Security does.

At the same time I would continue to look for a doctor for treatment. That is the source Social Security wants anyway. Tell her to get treatment, even if it is nothing we can do. Then name that medical provider to Social Security and lets see what Social Security will do.

My experience is Doctors do NOT want to do the paperwork Social Security wants them to do and thus will only do it for a patent they are otherwise treating. So do NOT look for a Doctor to do the paperwork required by Social Security, look for a Doctor who will treat her medical problems.

Helped me very much during my appeal. I was very depressed and couldn't tolerate the Celexa. I'm also well versed in mini mental status exams. I've given both versions that the psychologist gave me. I was as honest as I could be and that must have come through because I finally won!

in order to get ssdi you need to prove two things -
1. you have a medical diagnosis
2. your illness keeps you from performing gainful activities.

reply if you would like more info..

today has been a high anxiety day. check your PMs

damn good read..

and document how your illness keeps you from doing your job.

you need to do is get yourself to a doctor. If you have a primary care provider, ask them to refer you to a psychiatrist (NOT a psychologist, who can't diagnose actual physical reasons behind such things as depression). You can ask your PCP about getting an anti-depressant--they usually start with Prozac, and go from there. If the initial drug is not working, they might be able to find out if there is an actual physical reason behind it, and prescribe appropriately.

Many people in the country won't go to a psychiatrist or therapist because we've attached a stigma on "mental" illness, and people won't accept that our mental health is screwed up in any way. We look weak if we use their services, when in fact, everyone gets stressed out, and could be helped greatly with help.

In fact, it would be difficult to get disability without a psychiatrist to evaluate your condition. I'm not totally sure, but I believe a psychiatrist, who is still a medical doctor, needs to be consulted with any kind of condition that impedes your ability to work.

i've done somework towards this and made a few decisions. i'd rather not leave an internet trail, so any PMs would be answered. i want to thank you all so much for your support. you have been my blessing and support. irisblue

To me. I just can't take stress from a job like I used to. I actually did get fired and was eligible for unemployment. I'm in pain all the time but I can walk. I believe I was treated unfairly at my job and it still haunts me. I can't imagine being treated like that again.

I finally got a sliding scale medical facility to accept me. I have a follow up appointment this afternoons. Then I can see a real shrink. I'm on my second appeal.

Hopefully the problems I have with my neck and back fusions plus my depression and anxiety will be documented and taken seriously.

by phone....cold,really cold. speaking with lawyers tomorrow morning.

Is it possible,yes. Is it easy, no. Keep in mind, the way the SSA looks at disability is not whether or not you can do that particular job with that particular employer, but whether or not you could do something similar for someone else.

That being said, I do have depression and anxiety and I did get SSDI the first time I applied. BUT, I had been hospitalized 5 times in 4 years and had to take a 3 month leave of absence from my last job. I was taking 4 psychoactive medications. I was on final notice to be terminated because of errors I made due to poor concentration, but I ended up being laid off with a bunch of other people.

That was in 2010 when unemployment was almost 10%. Being over 50 didn't help my prospects of getting a new job. My depression, which was already bad, got worse, and my family DEMANDED that I apply for disability. I met a guy when I was in the hospital the last time who had gotten SSDI and he strongly recommended his attorney. I went with the attorney, who specialized in mental health disability claims. Well, I got it on the first try, but I didn't get any back pay.

Here's the thing. When I got the SSDI, I hadn't been unemployed for 18 months. Now I've been unemployed for 3 years. The longer you are unemployed, the harder it is to find a new job. I am living on less than half of my former take home pay, but I don't qualify for food stamps or Medicaid. A friend of mine gets less than I do, only $811, and she gets $16 in food stamps. Thankfully I live in a county that has a health program for the poor that I do qualify for, because my medications alone would cost me over $1000 a month.

If you do decide to apply for disability, I recommend that you speak with an attorney first. It won't cost you anything. The only pay they get is 30% of your back pay and that's only if you get back pay. This is controlled by law. They can get no part of your monthly payment. See if there are any DBSA support groups in your area. That's the Depression and Bipolar Support Alliance. They are good meetings to go to, and you may find people there who are getting SSDI.

Now that you've been terminated, you can apply for unemployment benefits and start looking for another job. I recommend that you take advantage of any and all services your local unemployment office offers.